Episode 61 - How to Build a Signature Program and a Niche Practice: Lessons from CFO Mentor Alena Bennett

Jane Anderson Director & Executive Leadership Consultant, CFO Mentor, Chartered Accountant, Author Alena Bennett

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What does it take to go from being very good at your technical craft to running a practice built around a signature program, a clear niche and a community of people you genuinely want to work with?

In this episode of The Jane Anderson Show, I sat down with Alena Bennett, a chartered accountant, executive leadership consultant, CFO mentor and author who has spent around 20 years working in finance in Australia and the US. Alena now works with chief financial officers through the CFO Boardroom, a 12-month coaching program and community. She is just as open about the messy parts of the journey as she is about the wins.

Her story takes in the "shiny toy" early years, a book written as a deliberate bet on a niche, a part-time contract that bought her time to build, and the careful design of her signature program. If you are a consultant, coach or advisor thinking about your next step, including the women in my Women With Influence community, there is plenty here to borrow.

A note on timing: Alena recorded this conversation while she was still building the CFO Boardroom, so figures such as pricing, list size and cohort size reflect that moment rather than today.

From Technical Finance to Work She Loved

Alena trained as an accountant and auditor in Australia and the US. Along the way she noticed two things: people kept coming to her for help, and leadership had a clear effect, good and bad, on team performance. Back in Australia she specialised in sampling, did advisory work with engagement teams and moved into KPMG's technical advisory department. After having her two children she decided partnership was never really her path, so she moved into corporate, partly to avoid being pigeonholed as an auditor.

That shift gave her the language for performance, culture and leadership. In her job interview she was told the company needed to roll out an internal controls framework. She said yes, on the condition that embedding it would require work on the finance culture, and the company agreed.

A couple of years later, at a leadership strategy day in Melbourne, she watched the facilitator and had what she describes as her "that's what I want to do when I grow up" moment. She was in her thirties and had no idea that coaching, facilitating, training and speaking were careers. She asked to pick the facilitator's brain, and he was generous with his time and introduced her to other people.

What became clear was where her value sat. She knew the technical side and could do it, but her strengths were relationships and influence, so she wanted to partner with smart finance professionals who needed leadership skills to lift their results. An invitation from a consultant to join an internal project outside finance gave her what she calls a soft landing, which mattered given the "am I qualified to do this?" doubts that come with a lot of qualifications. She worked on it for about a year. The distance rekindled her passion, and she started the "baby version" of her practice.

The Shiny Toy Years and the Pressure of Survival Mode

Alena is candid about the early stage. She did all of it at once, which she puts down to "shiny toy syndrome", and the delivery was good. But, as she says, delivery is just one piece of the pie. I added that the infrastructure around delivery is what makes a practice work, and she agreed.

She knew finance was where she wanted to play. Like a lot of people at that stage, though, she also needed to sustain the business, so she cast the net wide. She had heard the advice to pick a niche, but a scarcity voice kept asking what she might be missing out on.

Over several years the revenue was not quite replacing itself and the runway was burning down. She is the breadwinner in her family, the dynamic was starting to shift and they had two very young girls, which added uncertainty.

Writing a Book to Commit to a Niche

Alena describes her first book as a bit of a Hail Mary, borrowing the American football term from her American husband. Her thinking was that niching had to be a thing, so she wrote a book for women in finance. She also felt that after a few years in business she should have a book anyway.

The book was released right before the pandemic, and the gender conversation fell off the radar for a while, so it did not transform her revenue. It made a difference in other ways. Holding a book gave her a sense that there was real substance in her work. She already knew it was good because she had been teaching it for years, but other people reacted too, asking her to talk with them or to speak to their teams.

That gave her the impetus to decide she really wanted to be in this game. She also understood she needed more runway. Survival mode, she says, does nothing for your delivery, and in sales meetings the desperation shows.

If you are weighing up your own first book, you may enjoy how Dr Michelle Gibbings approached the fear of publishing her first book in episode 101.

Buying Runway with a Part-Time Contract

While skimming her emails, Alena spotted a part-time role in the careers section of a Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand message, in an area where she had particular expertise. She suspected a former KPMG colleague led the team, so she reached out. Over coffee she told her that the interested person was herself.

She was honest about her reasons. She wanted to protect the brand she had been working hard on, and she also admitted she was lonely. She thrives around a team and felt that energy was missing. Her former colleague thought the role was below her pay grade. Alena explained it had nothing to do with career trajectory; she wanted something that worked alongside her business.

She got the role: a 12-month contract of roughly two to three days a week, although she was not certain of the exact days. With the pandemic and lockdown arriving, it gave her a team she enjoyed and certainty of cash flow, which kept the foundation going while she kept building.

Timing mattered. Alena believes that if she had taken a contract 12 months earlier she might have seen it through a lens of failure. The book helped her treat it as a strategic play that would give her the foundation, the energy and the certainty to remove the negative energy of not being where she wanted to be.

Managing Your Energy

Running a contract on top of a business is hard, because the business is effectively a full-time job already. Alena says she was intentional about why the contract existed and about the energy she gave it. As a high performer she would normally have asked to do more, but she had to temper her expectations, knowing anything extra she gave the contract was taken from her business.

She was also transparent. The team knew the role sat alongside her business, and in the interview they asked why someone with a successful business wanted a job. Her conviction about the "why" carried her through. She had her husband on board for what she knew would be a tough year, and towards the end of it she told me she did not know how she was doing it, because her business was growing quickly.

Knowing When To Renegotiate

I asked Alena what tipped her into running her practice full time. Her answer was time and fatigue, and the contract coming to an end. They asked her to extend, and she did, partly because she was scared to let go of the certainty. She extended on her terms, working on discrete pieces on an invoice basis rather than as a part-time employee.

That variability eventually suited neither side. Then, about a month before we recorded, she was asked to contribute to a curriculum. Her day rate, the value of her time and the value of her IP had changed so much that she told them it would need an IP licence or another arrangement. They told her they do not enter into those arrangements, so the work ended on good terms.

I loved this part of her story. It is easy to feel that because you made a decision, you have to stay with it. Alena instead had an open conversation about where her value now sat. You can give yourself permission to grow.

Choosing CFOs and Designing a Signature Program

About a year before we recorded, Alena and I talked about her next step. She had niched into women in finance, and I asked who she really wanted to work with. She chose CFOs, because they sit at the top of the tree and can have the most impact and influence, both with their teams and across a leadership team and organisation.

She also wanted two other things. After her contract experience she wanted a group of great people around her. And she wanted a signature program that people would know her for: "Alena does this, and she runs a community for CFOs." She is not someone who needs to be in the spotlight, and her favourite mode of working is coaching and facilitating, where she gets to bring people together and be the connector.

The result is the CFO Boardroom, which she describes as her high performance coaching program and platinum community for CFOs. Alongside it she runs CFOs Connect, a bigger group of CFOs who come together on a semi-regular basis. She likens it to a "CFO Boardroom light". Her goal for the following year was to take these communities across the eastern seaboard, once travel restrictions allowed.

Alena's reasoning for building a community was practical. CFOs and finance professionals are good at internal networks but tend to get the blinkers on. They also do not want to go to a mass conference and do speed networking. What she keeps hearing is that they value a safe, genuine environment where they can say, "this is me." She also wanted to avoid the work feeling transactional, which is why the community and the 12-month length matter.

The Problem the Program Solves

Alena explains that the CFO role is evolving, and in her view the pandemic put CFOs in the spotlight as people who can keep companies safe and also drive strategic direction. The CFO Boardroom is for those who want that journey, including those who want to be the CEO's right hand and change the communities they work in. Not all CFOs do, and she is fine with that.

A big part of the work is helping CFOs define their own brand. There is a school of thought that CEO is the natural next step. Alena disagrees. She sees them as two different roles with different capabilities, and says you need a genuine desire to be a CEO. Her challenge to CFOs is to forget the job title and "play for significance", which for her is about legacy rather than status. That could mean a CEO role, a board seat, the philanthropic space or becoming a virtual CFO for multiple companies. When a brand is aligned with purpose, she finds the confidence and presence people look for show up naturally.

I pointed out that this is how good programs are designed: find the most significant problem holding your clients back, then design the solution it needs. Alena's depth of thinking about her CFOs, and her credibility from having done the job, is a big part of why the program is so clear.

Inside the CFO Boardroom: Structure, Pricing and Ease

At the time of recording, the CFO Boardroom cohort had ten people. Alena described the pillars of the 12-month program:

• Quarterly mastermind days.

• A two-hour check-in between quarters. She compares it to drifting towards the edge of the lane on a road trip: a prompt to get back into the middle of the lane, refocus and accelerate through the rest of the quarter.

• One-on-one coaching, tailored to each CFO's specific goals.

• An annual CFO of the Future community event, bringing together her CFOs and aspiring CFOs. This was one of the evolutions that came out of lockdown.

• Webinars and insights across the 12 months.

Each CFO also creates a "play", a 90-day focus project that can deliver a business outcome, a professional outcome or a personal one. Alena shared a story about a new participant with a five-year career plan. She assumed his play would be about business or work, but he said he has three streams in his life, cricket, family and work, and wanted more balance. For Alena it was a reminder that she is bringing together smart financial minds who are also human beings with complex lives.

Pricing and making it easy to say yes

I asked Alena about the price, and she was generous in sharing it. The CFO Boardroom was a $20,000 program, excluding GST. Some CFOs have their employer sponsor the program, and others fund it personally because they understand the benefit to them. Alena splits the $20,000 in whichever way is easiest for each person.

She credits two values she sees me put into practice: generosity and ease. If someone wants to opt in a few months before the next program launches, she spreads the fee over a longer period and adds some free coaching sessions so they get a running start. She does not want money to be the pain point, and she does not want transactional relationships.

She is also clear about her confidence in the price. She is comfortable that she will give clients a minimum of $20,000 of value back. Her new business manager looked at all the zeros and found it ridiculous, but Alena's view is that it is not about the money. It is what the money lets her do, which is to be generous and solve big problems for people, and to create the lifestyle she wants for her family.

The Unglamorous Foundations: List, Systems and Discipline

Behind the launch is work that does not look glamorous. Alena started the previous year with 64 CFOs on her list and, at the time of recording, had about 800. She keeps CFOs and aspiring CFOs on separate lists, so that number refers to CFOs. Without that list, she says, it is impossible to host multiple community events and forums for CFOs. She is still a long way from big public programs, and she says you have to do the work.

Where did the discipline come from? Alena credits the pandemic period, when she attended a content bootcamp and then took a collateral-building program I was running. She followed it closely, with "skin in the game". She sees it as a turning point for her business. What she valued was the rigour and discipline around the framework. She prefers a deliberate approach and wants to know an offer is good before she sells it.

I also noted that Alena has invested in her systems and her team. At the time she had two team members, one full time offshore and one local at around 20 hours a week. She recalls me explaining how a CRM interacts with a project management system, and says Asana is now her best friend. Her view: "If you get your foundations right, that is the source of freedom." It is not sexy, she says, but it is a must-have if you want to grow a big business and serve your community.

For another look at practical systems, episode 98 with Inbal Rodnay explores capturing and reusing the conversations you are already having.

Advice for Consultants Starting Out

I asked Alena what she would tell someone listening who sees themselves in her story of a year ago. Her advice came back to a few themes.

Be clear about what you want.

Alena admits she knew what she wanted and also did not. She tried a lot of things and allowed herself to be influenced by people who perhaps were not the right people. Self-awareness about what works for you lets you politely say, "thanks, but that's not really for me" to the random advice you will receive.

Stay in your lane.

Alena says she suffers from "comparisonitis" at times. Even a CFO asked her why she did not simply work with others too. She knows that would dilute the value she can offer CFOs, and her mentors agree. She reminds herself that "there is only one of me". She is an oldest child and a people pleaser, and she says it does not help anyone if you try to be all things to all people. Some people will be further ahead or doing things that look more fun, but you play your own game.

Expect imposter syndrome.

More recently Alena has experienced a bit of it, partly because her business has been successful this year. She finds herself asking who this person is and what this business is.

Invest in a mentor.

Alena says working with a mentor changed her life. She resonated with my story before we ever worked together, and she values the generosity with my network and ideas. She gave an example: when she was second-guessing how many options to offer in a finance leadership team program, I brought her back to the value she had promised clients and the benefit they would get.

About Alena Bennett

Alena Bennett is a chartered accountant, executive leadership consultant and CFO mentor with experience across Australia and the US. She is the author of Meaning Matters: Results Beyond the Numbers and CFO of the Future, and runs the CFOs Connect Community alongside the CFO Boardroom.

🔗 Alena's website · 🔗 Connect with Alena on LinkedIn

Frequently Asked Questions

How did Alena Bennett choose a niche for her consulting practice?

She started with a broad approach and cast the net wide, then wrote a book for women in finance as a deliberate bet on niching. Later, in a conversation with me about who she most wanted to work with, she chose CFOs because they sit at the top of the tree and can have the most impact and influence with their teams and across their organisations.

What is the CFO Boardroom?

The CFO Boardroom is Alena Bennett's high performance coaching program and community for CFOs. At the time of recording it was a 12-month program with quarterly mastermind days, a two-hour check-in between quarters, one-on-one coaching, an annual CFO of the Future community event and webinars. The cohort at the time had ten people.

How much does the CFO Boardroom cost?

At the time of recording, it was a $20,000 program excluding GST. Some CFOs have their employer sponsor it and others fund it themselves. Alena splits the fee in whichever way is easiest for the person, and for early sign-ups she spreads the payments over a longer period and adds some free coaching sessions.

Can you run a part-time contract alongside your own consulting practice?

Alena did, and she describes it as a strategic decision. She took a 12-month part-time contract for cash-flow certainty and a team to work with, was transparent with her employer, and managed her energy carefully so she did not give the contract effort that belonged to her business. She advises knowing exactly why you are doing it.

How did Alena Bennett grow her list of CFOs?

She went from 64 CFOs on her list to about 800 in 12 months. She says the list is a big part of being able to host community events and forums, and that it comes down to consistency, rigour and discipline, supported by systems and a team.

How should consultants deal with comparison and imposter syndrome?

Alena recommends being clear about what you want and what works for you, staying in your lane and playing your own game. She also advises investing in a mentor who helps you return to the value you have committed to your clients.

Conclusion

Alena Bennett's practice did not take off because of one clever tactic. It grew from a series of deliberate choices: turning her finance background into her point of difference, committing to a niche with a book, using a part-time contract to buy runway, choosing the people she most wanted to serve and building the list, systems and team underneath it all.

As I said to her, her story starts with who she cares about, and it shows in how deeply she thinks about her clients' challenges and opportunities. If you are building your own signature program, the pattern is worth copying: get clear on what you want, design around a significant problem and make it easy for the right people to say yes.

Work With Jane Anderson

If Alena's story resonated with you, here are some ways to take the next step:

• Women With Influence: Join a community of B2B women consultants, coaches and advisors building world-class practices.

• Grow With Influence: Work with me on your positioning, signature program and the structure of your practice.

• Free scorecards and diagnostics: Take the Known, Trusted, Chosen Scorecard to see where the gaps are in your personal brand, marketing, sales and scaling.

✨ Tune in to hear Alena's honest story of building a niche, a signature program and a community of CFOs, without losing sight of the life she wanted.

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Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

• Introduction to the Podcast (0:09 - 5:32)

  Jane Anderson introduces the podcast, emphasizing its focus on helping experts enhance their impact, influence, and income. She highlights the importance of personal connections in business interactions, introducing the episode's guest, Alena Bennett. Bennett, a chartered accountant with extensive corporate experience in Australia and the US, transitioned from a technical finance role to focus on leadership, communication, and influence. Anderson describes Bennett's specialization in working with CFOs and her creation of the CFO Boardroom program, aimed at enhancing leadership skills and career resilience in finance professionals. Anderson invites listeners to engage with the podcast and discusses her excitement about the upcoming interview with Bennett.

• Alena Bennett's Background and Practice Beginnings (5:33 - 8:50)

  Alena Bennett shares her journey from a technical finance career to her current focus on leadership and team performance. She reflects on her realization of the impact of leadership on team dynamics during her time as an auditor. Bennett describes her transition to corporate roles and her proactive approach to addressing organizational culture and performance issues. She recounts the pivotal moment when she recognized her passion for coaching and facilitating during a strategy meeting. Bennett acknowledges her initial uncertainty about entering the coaching and training field but embraced the opportunity presented by a contract role outside of finance. She discusses how this experience reignited her passion for helping finance professionals and ultimately led to the establishment of her coaching practice.

• Reflections on Practice Establishment (8:51 - 14:32)

  Bennett reflects on the challenges and lessons learned during the early stages of establishing her coaching practice. She admits to experiencing moments of uncertainty and shiny toy syndrome, where she pursued various business strategies without a clear focus. Despite initial peaks and troughs, Bennett recognized the importance of sustaining her business and gradually honed her niche in finance leadership coaching. She acknowledges the temptation to cast a wide net to attract clients but emphasizes the benefits of niche specialization for business success. Bennett shares her journey of navigating the balance between sustaining her business and narrowing her focus to leverage her expertise effectively.

• Challenges and Strategic Decisions (14:32 - 23:31)

  Alena Bennett reflects on the challenges she faced as the primary breadwinner in her family and the need to sustain her business while managing uncertainties. She describes her decision to write a book targeting women in finance as a strategic move to explore niche specialization and enhance her brand. Despite the book's release coinciding with the onset of the pandemic, Bennett acknowledges its significance in establishing credibility and attracting opportunities for speaking engagements and client engagements. She shares her realization that sustaining her business requires more than just revenue generation and the importance of aligning with her passion and expertise.

  Bennett recounts how she navigated a part-time contract role alongside her business to provide stability during the pandemic. She highlights the importance of maintaining a supportive team environment and fostering meaningful connections, such as her collaboration with Jane Anderson's programs. Bennett credits Anderson's rigor and discipline in her program frameworks for contributing to her business's growth and transformative impact. Despite facing challenges in managing energy and workload, Bennett emphasizes the value of intentionality and purpose in balancing her commitments and progressing her practice. She underscores the need for high performers to manage expectations and prioritize actions that align with long-term goals and sustainability.

• Balancing Commitments and Evolving Practice (25:31 - 36:07)

  Alena Bennett discusses the challenges of managing energy and commitments while navigating her contract role alongside her business. Despite her initial reluctance to let go of the stability provided by the contract, Bennett eventually reached a tipping point driven by time constraints and the evolution of her practice. She recounts the negotiation process with her contract role, where she transitioned from an employment contract to a more flexible invoicing arrangement to align with the changing dynamics of her business and the value of her time and expertise. Bennett emphasizes the importance of transparency and open communication in navigating professional relationships and evolving commitments.

  Reflecting on the evolution of her practice, Bennett shares her journey in building communities for CFOs, culminating in her signature program, the CFO Boardroom. Inspired by her passion for high-performance coaching and facilitating connections, Bennett outlines the development of her program and community, driven by her desire to work with CFOs and foster meaningful connections within the finance profession. She highlights the importance of intentional growth and adaptation, citing her significant increase in CFO contacts over the past year as a testament to the effort required to establish and expand her community. Bennett emphasizes the value of continuous learning and acknowledges the role of mentors like Jane Anderson in guiding her entrepreneurial journey.

• Building Foundations for Growth (36:45 - 47:57)

  Alena Bennett delves into the foundational aspects of her business, emphasizing the importance of rigor, discipline, and systems. She credits her commitment to productivity systems and team development for enabling the scalability and growth of her practice. Bennett highlights the role of effective systems, such as Asana, in streamlining operations and enhancing productivity. She underscores the significance of establishing strong foundations to facilitate spontaneity and innovation within business operations, emphasizing the symbiotic relationship between structure and freedom.

  Transitioning to the development of her signature program, the CFO Boardroom, Bennett outlines its structure and purpose. The program aims to empower CFOs to drive strategic impact within their organizations, reflecting the evolving role of CFOs as strategic leaders post-pandemic. Bennett emphasizes the program's focus on personal brand development and career trajectory, encouraging CFOs to envision their legacy and impact beyond traditional career trajectories. She underscores the value of advocacy, empathy, and deep insight in designing solutions that address the significant challenges faced by CFOs, such as increasing their value proposition and strategic influence within their organizations.

  In discussing the mechanics of the CFO Boardroom program, Bennett details its components, including quarterly mastermind sessions, individual coaching sessions, and community events. She highlights the program's holistic approach to supporting CFOs in achieving their professional goals and driving organizational success. Regarding pricing, Bennett explains that the program costs $20,000 excluding GST, with a flexible payment structure designed to accommodate participants' needs and preferences. She emphasizes a values-driven approach focused on generosity and ease, aiming to remove financial barriers and foster meaningful, long-term relationships with participants.

• Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs (47:00 - 48:46)

  Reflecting on her entrepreneurial journey, Bennett offers advice to aspiring entrepreneurs who may find themselves in a similar position to where she was 12 months prior. She emphasizes the importance of clarity in defining one's goals and aspirations, cautioning against being influenced by ill-suited advice or external pressures. Bennett encourages individuals to be intentional and discerning in their decision-making process, leveraging lessons learned from her own experiences. She advises aspiring entrepreneurs to invest in foundational elements such as systems, marketing, and team development, citing these as key drivers of transformative growth within her own practice.

  Bennett's insights provide valuable guidance for individuals navigating the complexities of entrepreneurship, emphasizing the significance of strategic vision, resilience, and continuous learning in achieving long-term success. Her journey serves as a testament to the transformative power of clarity, discipline, and values-driven decision-making in driving entrepreneurial endeavors forward.

• Embracing Self-Awareness and Overcoming Challenges (48:47 - 56:38)

  In a reflective tone, Eleanor Bennett shares insights on the importance of self-awareness and overcoming challenges such as comparisonitis and imposter syndrome. She emphasizes the value of clarity and discernment in navigating the myriad of advice and opinions encountered on the entrepreneurial journey. Bennett underscores the significance of staying true to oneself, acknowledging that not everyone will resonate with their chosen path, and that's perfectly acceptable. She encourages individuals to embrace their uniqueness and focus on their strengths, resisting the temptation to conform to external expectations or comparisons.

  Transitioning to a discussion on mentorship and personal growth, Bennett highlights the transformative impact of finding a mentor who aligns with one's values and vision. She credits a pivotal encounter with a mentor for catalyzing significant changes in her business and personal development journey. Bennett emphasizes the role of credibility and integrity in delivering value to clients, ensuring that their investments yield tangible benefits and outcomes. She reflects on the deeper purpose behind financial success, emphasizing the ability to create opportunities and make a positive impact on both clients and loved ones.

• Acknowledgment and Conclusion (56:38 - 56:38)

  In closing, the host, Jane, expresses gratitude to Eleanor Bennett for her generous insights and contributions to the discussion. She commends Bennett for her dedication to solving complex problems and deeply understanding her clients' needs, highlighting her as an inspiring figure in the consulting industry. Jane extends an invitation for listeners to connect with Bennett on LinkedIn, visit her website, or reach out via email, emphasizing Bennett's approachability and willingness to engage in meaningful conversations. Bennett expresses her appreciation for the opportunity to share her experiences and insights, concluding the conversation on a note of mutual respect and admiration.

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Full Show Transcript:

• Introduction

  [Speaker 2] (0:09 - 5:32)

  Hi there, my name is Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.

  So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. Hi there and welcome to today's podcast. I'm so thrilled you are here and being able to share with you our very special guest on the Jane Anderson Show.

  In this session or in this podcast, in this episode, we interview a super special guest who we've worked with for some time. She's been really open in being able to help share with you her journey and to be able to give you some tips and advice on if you're thinking about growing your practice as a consultant, some of the strategies that you might be able to implement. If you are in the consulting space, we have a program that's called Women with Influence, which is where a lot of women who are consultants that work with us, but I do work with people who are not just women.

  So you're most welcome to reach out, jump on the Jane Anderson website, subscribe, become part of the tribe in the community where you'll be able to hear about some of the latest podcasts that are coming up. You'll also hear about events that are coming up as well. So we like to keep you in the loop so that you can come along and I can work with you and help you to be able to answer some of your questions, perhaps about building your own practice.

  But with that in mind, I'm going to share with you a little bit about our guest before we interview her today. So our very special guest today is a lady called Alena Bennett. So she is a chartered accountant by trade and she works with an international public practice.

  She's got an incredible amount of corporate experience. She's a published author and she spent the last 20 years working as a finance professional, particularly in Australia and the US. And she came from a background of being that technical sort of space.

  But what she realised was that she has actually really had the best skills in being able to communicate and connect and lead and influence and persuade people, which is really around that leadership space. So despite coming from that finance background, she really had those skills and she went on to hone them. She works specifically in the space of leaders in finance.

  She's done a bit of work in the space of women in finance, but particularly now works with CFOs. She's created an incredible program called the CFO Boardroom, where she works with CFOs to help connect them, help them. She's also written a great book on being able to become a CFO of the future.

  So she's really helping them to really create resilience in their careers, to be able to define opportunities, to help them create more influence and impact in their roles. Most people work with Alena to help them to break down silos in their teams rather than being seen as a back office function to be able to really step up and become more visible, have more influence. Things like, you know, sometimes they don't have things in place like succession plans and being able to or to really become high performing or even to help them to find, identify their next career opportunity.

  I've asked Alena to come on today to share with her some of her really unique experience around being able to build something like a signature program, which is what she has built. She runs programs and workshops. She speaks at conferences and all those types of things, and she does work with high performing teams.

  But in particular, I've asked her to talk about how she's built this incredible program and the problems she solves. Some of the people that she works with include like KPMG, BDO, EY, Rural Co, Invacare, Infomedia, Zero, Latitude Financial, TAL. She's worked with some of the biggest brands and she really totally gets her customer.

  I'm really excited to bring Alena on board today in the podcast, and I hope you enjoy today's episode. I would love to hear what your thoughts are. I'd love to hear your insights.

  Please reach out afterwards. I'd love to hear. And even perhaps if you want to share a suggested guest for me, I'd love to hear that as well.

  Welcome and thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I am so grateful that you are here and to be able to have this opportunity to interview you, particularly for our audience. We have lots of people, particularly women who have their own practices and thinking about either sort of starting their practice or they've been in a similar situation to yourself where you've had your practice for some time and then going into or maybe contracting and going to your own practice, things like that.

• Interview

  So I'm thrilled that you're here. I have so many questions to ask you. I'd love to have you all day, but I'm trying to make the most of the time I've got with you.

  So, Alena, are you happy to share a bit about your practice and your background and how you kind of started your practice?

  [Speaker 1] (5:33 - 8:50)

  Yeah, absolutely. So my background is a finance professional, senior finance leader by trade. So I was an accountant and an auditor for a very long time in Australia and in the US.

  And over that time, I was definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed. But what I loved doing was helping people. And what I found is during that time, people were coming to ask me for help.

  And what I saw in both landscapes was the positive and negative impact that leadership had on performance and in particular team performance. When I was an auditor, we had lots of different teams. And so I and so really so fast forward a little bit, come back to Australia.

  I had done a lot of training in the US and I brought that over. I'd also specialized in sampling. So I was a sampling specialist.

  So doing lots of advisory type engagement with engagement teams. And I moved when I came back, I moved into their technical advisory department in KPMG's technical advisory department. I then had my two children and went, you know what, partnerships never really been a thing for me.

  So moved into corporate. I didn't want to sort of be pigeonholed as an auditor, I suppose. And it was during that shift or sort of it was at that shift of moving into corporate where I started to put language around things like performance and culture and leadership.

  They would ask me, I'll never forget in my job interview, they asked me or they said to me, oh, look, one of the things we need to do is we need to roll out an internal controls framework. And my heart sank because rolling out internal controls was not what I wanted to do, right. But I very quickly and nimbly and, you know, sort of one of my smarter moments, I suppose, I went, yeah, totally fine to do that.

  But in order to do that successfully and embed that internal controls framework, we need to have the culture to support it. So given the growth trajectory of the company, I'm going to need to do some work on the finance culture. Thankfully, they said, have at it.

  So I think that was my sort of first proactive foray into doing the work that I do now with finance leadership teams. But it was really a couple of years later when I was sitting on a business leadership team. So I was the finance executive in one of the lines of business and I was in a leadership strategy day and I was sitting there and I had that moment.

  I was such a little girl. I went, that's what I want to do when I grow up at the facilitator. I was like, that's it.

  That's it. I don't know what that is. That's what I did want to do when I grew up.

  And I vividly remember the next day or a couple of days later, because that was down in Melbourne, saying to my friend in the bathroom, her name is Anna, I said, Anna, I think I've seen what I want to do when I grow up. I'm in thirties, right? So I wasn't a young chicken.

  And, you know, as a lot of us do or sort of as we do in those situations, we ask them for a copy and we ask to pick their brain. Right. How many people have had that happen?

  And, you know, he was very gracious with his time. I had no idea that this world that we play in, Jane, existed. I was just in my little, I just do finance.

  I just, you know, beaver away. And I, you know, climb up the ranks. Had no idea that coaching, facilitating, training, speaking, didn't know it was a thing.

  [Speaker 2] (8:50 - 8:51)

  Wow.

  [Speaker 1] (8:51 - 12:06)

  And so it was like this. My eyes were just opening because, of course, you know, I caught up with him a few times. Then he connected me with other people.

  And I really found like I felt like I'd found my purpose. This was the thing I was meant to do because I knew all the technical stuff. I didn't love it, but I could do it.

  And as I said, I wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed technically, but I was very good at relationships and influence. And so that was what contributed to my success. And so I said I got to a point where I went, you know what, my energy and effort is best placed partnering alongside those finance professionals, those really smart ones that actually need to amplify their results or elevate their results with the leadership skills, with the team leadership skills and all of the rest of it.

  So that was really how I got to where I got to where I am now. But I suppose the thing I'm a little bit of a high initiator. So when I have an idea, I just go and do it like any any attribute like that.

  It's good until it's not the good part of it, I suppose. At the same time, the stars aligned and I was working with another consultant on a project internally. And he said to me, E, we've got this project that I would love some support on, not in the finance space, but I'd love for you to come.

  He knew about my sort of new aspirations and he said, well, how about you come and work with me on this project? And I thought, oh, gosh, you know, it seems like a big, a big leap. But at the same time, it's a soft landing, because as you can appreciate, as you know, as an accountant, we have lots of qualifications.

  And so there's a bit of the am I qualified to do this going on? He was giving me that sort of soft landing. So I went, I'll take the opportunity.

  I'll just jump, which was absolutely never change it. But I suppose in terms of lessons learned, I'd probably do a few things differently, but we might come to that. And so so so I jumped in and I did that contract work for about a year.

  And what was nice about that, it took me away from the finance world. It actually was with some frontline staff. But over the course of that year, I sort of rekindled my with that distance.

  It sort of rekindled my passion. And I realized, you know what? I can really help these finance professionals.

  I know their lingo. I've done their job. And, you know, I think there's I think that's where my value is best placed.

  Yes. And so I decided after the 12 months in that particular contract role, I decided to sort of start my practice in the baby version of what it is today. Yes.

  And I started doing doing all the things. And, you know, as someone who suffers from shiny toy syndrome, I literally did all of everything right and doing all of them poorly. I dare say that the delivery was good because, you know, from when you get up and you have to perform on stage or coach or what have you, that's the real sort of that's the bread and butter.

  That's the stuff that the capability that you go, yeah, I've got that stuff. But as we know, or as we learn to know, delivery is just one piece of the pie. Yes.

  [Speaker 2] (12:07 - 12:12)

  Yeah. Well, that infrastructure around it to make that happen. Exactly right.

  [Speaker 1] (12:13 - 12:50)

  So I suppose so that that was all good. But I'd certainly had lots of peaks and troughs in that in those first few initial years of I said, yeah, it was it was the shiny toy thing. And, you know, it was the oh, I'll go and try that or I'll go and try that or I'll go and try that.

  And whilst I sort of knew that the playground I wanted to play in was the finance. But if I'm perfectly honest, I was a little bit like what I hear. A lot of people are in that early stages.

  You kind of go, well, I actually just need to sustain my business. So I'll kind of cast the net far and wide.

  [Speaker 2] (12:50 - 12:50)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (12:50 - 13:05)

  And whilst I was hearing a lot of you've got a niche, you've got a niche because it'll make it better. There's that I think that scarcity part of the brain that goes, oh, but if I cut off that. Yes.

  And what about all these other people? And what am I missing out on?

  [Speaker 2] (13:05 - 13:05)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (13:05 - 14:32)

  And I'm sure I can help them because I'm wonderful. Right. Got on.

  However, so what happened? And I'll be perfectly honest with you. What happened over the number of years?

  I suppose, you know, the runway burned the runway down. The revenue wasn't quite replacing itself. And I was kind of asking myself, I was faced with some difficult decisions or circumstances.

  I suppose the additional piece of context is I'm the breadwinner in my family. It always has been that way. And that works really well for us.

  But obviously, the dynamic was starting to shift and that was causing some uncertainty. We had two very young girls, my husband and I, and so that it was just sort of providing a bit of a rocky platform anyway. So if I think about my husband, Cody's American, as you know, and so he follows or follows American football.

  So it was a little bit of a Hail Mary, you know, Hail Mary pass. Can we get the touchdown? I wrote I wrote my first book.

  I went, you know what? This niching thing has got to be a thing. So I'm just going to write a book for women in finance.

  There was a little bit of the you know what? I want to you've been in your business for a few years. You probably should have a book anyway.

  So there was a little bit of the you actually should have done this anyway. But if I'm perfectly honest with you, Jane, it was a little bit of a Hail Mary. Let's do this niche thing.

  Let's see if it works. Let's write the book and see what happens on the other side.

  [Speaker 2] (14:32 - 14:32)

  OK.

  [Speaker 1] (14:33 - 18:31)

  It was it was. A game changer in a number in a number of areas, not particularly on a revenue side, because the release was right before the pandemic, which meant that all of the gender stuff sort of fell off the radar for a little bit. But there was something about holding a book and going, oh, I did this.

  Not everybody can do this. Yeah, there's actually substance. Yes.

  In this. And so and so, you know, you got to eat like they say, you've got to sell yourself before you can sell anyone else. But there was there was a bit of both going, oh, I've written a book and gosh, there's actually lots of good stuff in here.

  I knew it was good because I've been teaching it for years. But then there was the other people going, oh, you've written a book. That's incredible.

  Can you come and talk to can you come and have a conversation with me here? Can you come and talk to my team then? So that started to I suppose that gave me enough impetus or motivation to go, all right, you know what?

  There's something in this. I think at that point, Jane, there was also the you know what? I really want to be in this game.

  Like that decision that I really want to be in this game. But I understand that I need a bit more runway. I need to buy some time because it's not fun playing in survival mode.

  It doesn't do anything from a delivery perspective. Yeah. When you're in sales meetings, it just you just, you know, it comes out of your pores, right?

  Screaming desperation. Yeah. And as you know, I am a bit of a I'm not real woo woo, but I do sort of believe in the power of the universe.

  And I was reading I was skimming my emails and there was an email from the Chartered Accountants of Australia and New Zealand, which I'm a member of because I'm a dorky accountant. And I just kind of flicked through. Flick through, flick through, got to the bottom and it said, you know, career like the career section.

  And I went, huh, that's interesting. Clicked on that. And as it turned out, there was a part time role in an area that I was a particular expert, had particular expertise in.

  And I was pretty certain that a former colleague of mine at KPMG ran that team. And I went, huh, this is interesting. So I emailed her separately because the things that are going on in my head, you know, I want to make sure I've got that runway.

  But at the same time, I don't want to do anything that's going to undermine my brand that I've been working hard on. And so I reached out to her and I said, hey, we'll call her Anna. I said, hey, Anna, just wanted to check.

  I saw this thing. I saw you might be looking for a part time role and I might know someone who's interested. Is that the team that you lead?

  And she said, oh, yeah, actually it is. And I said, OK, can we let's catch up for coffee and let's talk about it. So I caught up with her in town.

  I said, actually, the person that might be interested is me. And I said and this was very honest. I said, quite frankly, I'm lonely.

  Like I'm someone that loves to thrive when I'm working with people around a team. And whilst I had this level of confidence that I was on the right track, I really was progressing in a sort of linear, proper fashion, grown up fashion. I kind of felt like that energy was missing.

  That mojo was missing. And so I said, look, this is what's going on. And I'm in the process.

  And they knew like I was in the process of building my business. My business is focused on finance professionals. And at the same time, I want to make sure that I'm keeping I'm around good people and I'm working around good people.

  She said to me, I don't know, like this is far below your pay grade. So she was sort of thinking like career thing. And I said, Anna, this has got nothing to do with that.

  I'm not on a career trajectory. I just want something that's going to work alongside my business. So very fortunately, I got that role.

  It was a 12 month contract role. It was or two to three days a week. I forget.

  [Speaker 2] (18:31 - 18:31)

  OK.

  [Speaker 1] (18:32 - 19:44)

  It was perfect because I obviously didn't know the pandemic was going to happen. So it meant that in the midst of pandemic and lockdown, I had a team that I was working with who were wonderful. I had some certainty of cash flow, which meant that that kind of kept the foundation layer going, which meant I could keep growing my business.

  It was during that time, Jane. So I've been stalking you for a long time, but it was during that time. It's surprising how many people say that, actually.

  I have been stalking you. But you put on a couple of offers that I couldn't refuse. And I just felt that everything was leading to this point.

  And so I think I attended one of your content club boot camp things. I signed up for content club. And then I'll never forget that you did an end of financial year sale for Cutthroat Collaterals.

  And, you know, at that time, I was going, oh, this is such a good deal. But all cash like cash flow, you know, but you made it super easy for me to make that decision. But it was a bit of a hold on to your hats, people.

  This is it. And it was like within I can't even remember, but it was the game changer. Like if I think about the trajectory of my business, that was the game changer.

  [Speaker 2] (19:44 - 19:44)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (19:45 - 19:53)

  And in preparation for this conversation, we've sort of had this conversation before in terms of what was the thing like, what has been what was the game changer?

  [Speaker 2] (19:54 - 19:54)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (19:55 - 20:05)

  I think I connect to your story, like I think about way back in the days, I remember watching a video on thought leaders and I went, yeah, like I resonate with you from a human perspective.

  [Speaker 2] (20:06 - 20:06)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (20:06 - 20:14)

  So that's as you know, that's important. But it was the rigor and the discipline that you provided around that that program and that framework.

  [Speaker 2] (20:15 - 20:15)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (20:15 - 20:37)

  I'm not I'm not a hustler, so I'm not someone who just goes, all right, he's you know, I can't sell ice to Eskimos. Yeah. That's saying and and maybe this is this sort of accounting to me, but I want to know that it's good.

  Yes. OK, I get the idea of sell it and then build it after I understand that. But I really struggle knowing that in your heart.

  [Speaker 2] (20:38 - 21:44)

  Correct. So we're listening just to share. That's OK, Alena, for those who are listening at that time.

  So I was in covid because that was the time when we realized I was like, well, the one thing that most people are missing, if we've got any opportunity to do anything now, if people are in lockdown and going, how do I make the most of this? And I know you think like that. And a lot of women in our community think like that is how can I make the most of this time?

  What can I do? And so the program we had then was cut through collateral, which is essentially, OK, let's build the collateral. Landing pages, white papers, brochures, all the stuff that people I never have time to do this.

  And but at the same time is I'm struggling to get my sales and I'm struggling to get my price point up or I'm struggling to articulate my value. So you got in and I think we had the 14 modules in that program and you just went hell for leather, like you're like, yep, right. I mean, and it was I think you did every single piece.

  You just followed it to the letter, I think.

  [Speaker 1] (21:45 - 22:19)

  Yeah, I think, yes, I did. And I think there was I had a heap of skin in the game. Yeah, I knew I knew I was starting to see what good could be for me.

  Yes, I'd really and I suppose one of the things I will say about the sort of accepting the contract role that it was the right time to do that. And what I mean by that, I reckon if I had thought about it and accepted it 12 months earlier, I may have looked at it from a through a lens of failure. Right.

  Whereas I had kind of I I reckon the book probably had a lot to do with it.

  [Speaker 2] (22:19 - 22:20)

  Yes.

  [Speaker 1] (22:20 - 22:37)

  Is that I was able to go, no, this is a strategic play. Right. This will give me the foundation.

  So it'll give me the energy and it'll give me the certainty of cash flow, which will take away all of the potential negative energy that sometimes gets in your in your being when you're kind of not where you want to be.

  [Speaker 2] (22:37 - 23:31)

  Right. And how did you manage the energy of that, Alena? Because I think this is really key because there's a lot of women who start their practices.

  And and I was like you, I started I was contracting before I went full time in your practice. And that that's a there's a lot of pressure that comes with that. But it's great because you've got the certainty of income, but you're having to maintain manage your energy to continue to do the things that are going to progress your practice.

  How did you push through that time, trying to go three days a week here and then being able to keep going? OK, I've got to progress that and progress that, because I'm sure on those other days, it's I think I'll just have a break or I, you know, I need I need work life balance. You know, it's hard to push through that time.

  How did like what did you have to do to get through that, to make that transition?

  [Speaker 1] (23:32 - 24:09)

  Yeah. Yeah, it's a really good question because it is hard because it's almost like you're pretty much doing what your business is, a full time job. And so really, the contract sits on top of that.

  Right. So, I mean, you know, I'm all about intention and purpose. So I knew specifically the point of that contract role.

  It was there. It was there for a real purpose. It was there.

  I was being very intentional about doing it. And intentional about the energy that I give to it. Now, as a lot of I'm sure women in your community and certainly the ones that I know, we're all high performers.

  We want to do the best in everything that we do.

  [Speaker 2] (24:10 - 24:10)

  Yes.

  [Speaker 1] (24:11 - 25:31)

  So it meant that I actually had to manage my energy in the contract role. I needed to do a great job, of course. But I needed to if I ordinarily would have gone there.

  And asked to do more. I had to really temper my own expectations, OK, because I knew that anything extra that I would give them would actually be something that I take away from my business. And so I just had that.

  OK, this is, you know, and particularly, you know, working with people that I loved and I did. I did and still do love the people that I was working in that team with. I'm so grateful for their friendship and we are still friends.

  But I just had to, yeah, really manage my energy. And I was really transparent with them as well. Well, I didn't pretend that this was something that was agnostic to my business.

  They knew it sat alongside each other. I was very transparent in the interview process. In fact, they were really they were really interested.

  I'll never forget the interview. They said, if you've got such a successful business, why would you want to be getting a job? And so, again, it kind of came back to my own conviction around the why I was doing the contract role.

  And so when it came to and I know certainly sort of towards the end of that year, Jane, I was going, Jane, I don't know how I do this. I remember because as a result of the work that we'd been doing, my business just kind of went straight up.

  [Speaker 2] (25:31 - 25:32)

  Yeah. You were just hanging on.

  [Speaker 1] (25:33 - 25:49)

  Yeah. And it just yeah. And so that was the thing.

  It was this is I'm doing this for a reason. I was very, you know, even I had Cody on board with that. I know this is going to be a really tough year, but this is what it needs to look like on the other side.

  You know, if we can just hang on for the year.

  [Speaker 2] (25:50 - 25:50)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (25:51 - 25:53)

  And what was that tipping point, Alena?

  [Speaker 2] (25:54 - 26:06)

  Like when you went, what made you decide to finally go, OK, it's time to start my practice 100 percent. That takes a lot of guts and courage. How what happened that made you get to that point?

  [Speaker 1] (26:09 - 26:53)

  Probably time and fatigue, if I'm really. So so the contract. So the contract itself was coming to an end.

  OK. However. I was pretty good at what I did there.

  So they kept asking me to extend. That's right. Yeah.

  And so I did on my terms. So instead of going out, you know, I was effectively on an employment contract where it was a part time employment contract. So I went, I will extend because I was scared to let go.

  Right. Like there was just this certainty that the money was just going to keep coming in and I could just keep doing what I wanted. But I said, OK, well, yes, I'm happy to extend, but I'm going to work on these discreet things and it's going to be an invoice type arrangement.

  [Speaker 2] (26:54 - 26:54)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (26:54 - 28:22)

  I didn't ever carry that guilt with me that I'm supposed to be on the clock, but I'm not, you know, I obsess about my calendar. And so I know that if it's in my calendar, I'll get it done. So I was pretty confident that if I entered into the agreement into this extension in this way, I'd be able to honor my agreement with them without jeopardizing anything in my business.

  However, that volatility or that the variability didn't work so much for me and it didn't work so much for them. And so actually until recently, in fact, just recently, we actually have severed because I've got to a point where I said, you know what? My day rate, the value of my time, the value of my IP, it's actually changed so much that if you want me to contribute to this curriculum that you're building, we're actually going to have to either license IP or figure out, you know, another way to do it.

  And they actually have come back to me and said we don't enter into those arrangements. So we actually just recently or that conversation was probably about a month ago. But the timelines were too tight, given what delivery I had booked in anyway.

  But but actually, yeah, it was about a month ago where we had that I was able to have that conversation and say, yes, I'm happy to work with you and I understand why you want my expertise in there. Yes, this is the arrangement under which we will have to do that. And they said, no, we don't do that.

  So that it's all good.

  [Speaker 2] (28:23 - 30:03)

  What I love about that, Alena, is like if we listen to the journey you've been on is the evolution of your practice. And I know it sounds so obvious, but I don't know if you find this, but I find sometimes when I'm talking to those in our community and even for myself, I was like, but this was the decision I made. So I've got to kind of stay with doing this.

  But as you evolve and as your practice evolves, because you're unpacking your thinking, you're now articulating your value is that those conversations, yes, you made a commitment with them, but that was for that period of time. And as it evolved and changed, you worked with them to have those conversations as opposed to feeling beating yourself up, wracked with guilt, trying to work around it as opposed to just being transparent and working with them and having a conversation and just going, well, you know, someone in our community says, yeah, I've learned that I'd never to sit still is this is continuing to evolve it and change it as opposed to going, well, OK, I'm sitting here. I'm going to stay here for the next 10 years.

  So, you know, I think that's such a valuable insight for you to share, is that, you know, even though you may have. Yes, that was right for that time. But it's OK.

  You can give yourself permission to grow and to be able to progress. And so, Alena, you now in your own practice, if we go forward to, you know, the start of particularly the really fabulous program that you've got now, are you happy to share a little bit about the community that you've built now and how it works and how you how it all came about?

  [Speaker 1] (30:04 - 33:36)

  Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to. So, yeah, I think the my sort of signature program and community that I've developed over the course of the last four months is the CFO boardroom.

  So for chief financial officers that are looking to play bigger, essentially, this is something, you know, Jane, that we started talking about this time last year. And so, yes, I had niched into the women in finance. And yes, the sort of gender diversity thing had sort of come off.

  And you and I were having a conversation. All right. So what's what's the next thing?

  Like, if you really who do you really want to work with? And I said, you know what? I want to work with CFOs because they're the ones, you know, they're at the top of the tree.

  They're the ones that have the most that can have the most impact and influence, not only with their teams, but at the leadership and an organization level. So that's the group. And I said, the other thing that I would love is a is a group of people around me.

  You know, I mentioned the contract part was a lot around working with great people. Well, that's a lot of what the CFO boardroom was around. So I said, I want to have that signature program that people know, you know, Alena does this and she runs a community for CFOs because I'm not someone who necessarily needs to be in the spotlight.

  So we talk about the different modes that we operate in. Yes, I work across all of the modes. But my favorite mode is the coaching and facilitating mode.

  Where I get to bring people together and be the connector and help them and elevate them together. Right. And so the CFO boardroom was something that we, you know, we sort of planned out this time last year.

  And we said, OK, well, what does that look like? And so I've been spending the last 12 months very actively building my list of CFOs and building that building that community. And so now I have the CFO boardroom, which is my high performance coaching program and what I call my platinum community for CFOs.

  I have a community called CFOs Connect, which is a group. It's a bigger group of CFOs that comes together on a semi regular basis just to catch up. It's kind of like CFO boardroom light, right?

  If you want. And I suppose my hope is that's been really successful this year. Sort of taking those things off.

  My big goal for next year, I suppose, is to take those communities across the whole of the eastern seaboard. We're obviously limited a little bit in travel by by COVID and travel restrictions. So I'm really hoping to extend that out, because what I found is that CFOs and, you know, finance professionals, very good at internal networks.

  And I was the same. Very good at, you know, internally in the business. Who is my profile?

  You know, who's my profile? With whom am I influencing the right people? But we sort of get the blinkers on.

  And even though we know we should get out there. Yes. We don't want the, you know, go to a mass conference and do the speed dating type thing.

  Right. Not my style either. And so it's really, you know, what I what I keep hearing, the success of these communities and the people in these communities is it's just an opportunity to kind of get together in a safe and genuine environment and just kind of go, oh, yeah, this is this is me.

  Yeah, this is me. I was fascinating. We had a boardroom session last week.

  Yes. One of the guys, one of the guys that joined our cohort for the first time for December, really very serious. Like you think I'm intentional, Jane?

  This guy takes the next level.

  [Speaker 2] (33:37 - 33:37)

  Really?

  [Speaker 1] (33:38 - 34:44)

  So he wanted to be, you know, super, you know, and he's got a plan for his five year career. Wonderful. OK.

  He got in and we were creating our play, which is a sort of 90 day focus project. And, you know, it can either be a business outcome, a professional outcome or some sort of personal activation outcome thing. OK.

  I fully expected, given his intention, his, you know, the conversations and sessions we've had so far, his would definitely be about business or professional. And he said, actually, I've got three streams in my life, cricket, family and work. Right.

  I want to get some balance in those three things because it's too work focused. Right. And I just and it just it was just such a good reminder that, you know, what what do I do?

  I bring the smartest minds, the smartest financial minds together. That is my day job. Right.

  But fundamentally, I'm dealing with a bunch of human beings with complex lives that want to be good. You know, they want to be there for their friends, their families, their loved ones, which is something that really just binds us all. Really?

  Yes.

  [Speaker 2] (34:44 - 34:48)

  And they're human beings at the end of the day, aren't they?

  [Speaker 1] (34:48 - 34:48)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 2] (34:49 - 35:18)

  And Alena, are you happy to share just even a bit in the mechanics of of how something like this works? Like because there's people will be listening to this going, how on earth do you pull together a CFO boardroom? Like, you know, you had a list and all that sort of stuff.

  But one is, you know, what kind of I don't know if you're happy to share it, kind of how much people pay for something like that. And, you know, so you talked about a quarterly day. Are you happy to share a bit about the mechanics?

  [Speaker 1] (35:19 - 35:45)

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I'll go back and maybe just go a step before the launch. I want to be really clear if it's OK to share with you.

  And hopefully I don't do something wrong for myself. But I started this time this time last year. I had 64 CFOs in my list.

  Right. 64. Yeah.

  64. I now have about 800. Yeah.

  [Speaker 2] (35:45 - 35:45)

  Great.

  [Speaker 1] (35:46 - 36:07)

  In 12 months. Now, I have to, you know, because I separate my leaders in finance portal into CFOs and aspiring CFOs. Right.

  So there's a whole nother chunk. But for CFOs, like I said, I don't know what percentage growth that is. But in terms of how do you even get yourself in a position where you can host multiple community events and forums for CFOs?

  [Speaker 2] (36:08 - 36:08)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (36:08 - 36:45)

  You've got to you've got to do the work to get the list up and get those numbers up, because otherwise it's impossible. Now, I'm still a long way away from having big public programs and taking on the world, which is ultimately what I want. But you've got to do the work.

  And again, it sort of comes down to what I've learned from you, Jane, is just that rigor and discipline. And I think one of the things it is easy to be bright eyed and excited about the world that we're playing, because it's fun. We are so lucky to do what we do.

  Yeah, but it is a job. Yeah. And the job you need to have that consistency to have that growth.

  So the list is a really big part of that.

  [Speaker 2] (36:45 - 37:33)

  So I just wanted to share that start with a big part of that maybe is because I know you've made a real commitment to your systems with your team because you came out of being on your own. You now have two team members. You have someone full time offshore and you have someone local working with you.

  About 20 hours a week. You really invested in your systems because I know you talk, you obsess around productivity, your calendar and cadence and rhythms. And so I think what you're kind of talking about is.

  It doesn't look sexy because you're just going, it's just list. You just got to keep finding those people and just. But you can't do that if you haven't got those systems and rhythms in place.

  Yeah, I know you've put a real effort into those with yourself and in particular your team to get that system working so you can stay in your genius. Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (37:33 - 40:59)

  Oh, yeah. I'll never forget the cut through collateral session where you went. CRM is not so much about your CRM, but how you CRM interacts with your PMS or whatever.

  It's yeah, management system. Yeah. And I'm saying, Jane, what's it?

  What's the PM? What's all that? And so then, you know, and so now Asana is my best friend.

  Thanks to thanks to you and that with the team. Yeah. So there's a lot of backhand work.

  But I fundamentally believe that if we can get the foundations right, like I kind of go, if you get your foundations right, that is the source of freedom. Or if you get your structure right, that is how you can be spontaneous. Right.

  So not everyone likes to be, you know, kind of play in that spontaneous fun space. Yeah, that's totally cool. We'll let them hang out in the foundation and the structure space.

  Yes. But if we are going to grow these nice big businesses and serve our communities, we need to have we need to have the foundation. So, yes, it's it's not sexy, but it's an absolute must have it.

  Then we work together to build this. I knew I wanted a signature program. I knew I wanted a community and I wanted to want it to remove any sort of feeling of a of a work client relationship, feeling transactional, which is why the community piece was so important and also the longevity of a program was.

  And so the CFO boardroom is fundamentally a 12 month. It's the first 12 months of a of a program or a career journey, which is really designed to help CFOs. Let me backtrack just quickly.

  The role of the CFO is evolving. It's growing. The pandemic actually was a really good thing for CFOs because it really put them in the spotlight as as a role that can add value, that can not only keep companies safe, but can you really can drive the strategic direction of a business.

  So the pandemic, I think, worked wonders for CFOs and the profile of a CFO. So really, the CFO boardroom is to harness those CFOs who are up for that. Not not all of them are.

  That's totally fine. But for those who are up for the up for that journey, who are looking to lead their businesses, looking to be the two I see for their CEO, looking to, you know, sounds big, but really looking to change the world, do good things and collectively change the communities that they operate in. That's that's who I'm looking to for support.

  And so the CFO boardroom provides them with the opportunity to go, all right, what is my brand as a CFO? And, you know, it's really interesting as I've been really playing in this space for the last 12 months, really interesting. The conversations I'm having around, well, what's next?

  You know, they've worked up the corporate hierarchy. So you look at the CFO and you go, well, what else what else is next? There's really only one role.

  And I think there is a school of thought that it has, you know, CEO is the next step. I disagree with that. I think those are two different roles with different capabilities and you need to have a desire to be a CEO.

  It's not it's not an easy role. Yeah. So with the conversation that what I'm trying to do in terms of helping CFOs create their brand is say, well, what you know, forget about a job title.

  What is it? What does your career look like for you? What you know, I say play for significance.

  Significance not about status is about legacy.

  [Speaker 2] (41:00 - 41:00)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (41:00 - 41:41)

  Right. So what is the impact you want to have on the world through the work that you do? So it might be through CEO or it might be a board, you know, a board role or it might be you might step into the philanthropic space.

  You might decide to be a virtual CFO and help multiple companies instead of just one. I think there are just so many exciting options for the future for CFOs. And so that's why we do a lot of work on brand and positioning.

  And I know I'm talking to the absolute master in that space. But I find that when we talk about things like confidence and conviction, once you've got a brand that's aligned in purpose, that conviction, that gravitas that everybody is searching for, it just sort of exudes naturally.

  [Speaker 2] (41:42 - 42:02)

  And Alena with this group. So it's a group of like twelve that you have an eight, was it? It's ten at the moment.

  Ten. Yeah. And so there are ten people.

  So you have a group of ten that get together and you're looking at doing some other groups as well. They get together each quarter and they get some coaching as well.

  [Speaker 1] (42:02 - 42:40)

  Is that how it works? That's it. So if we talk about the quarterly mastermind day.

  So those are what I call the pillars of the program. Yeah. Quarterly masterminds in between the quarters.

  We have a two hour check in where we get together and go, are you on track? You know, where do you need help? What do you need support with?

  You know, it's really to say it's a little bit like when you go on a road trip and you know, when you're on the big motorways and you start to go in here, that the end of the lane. Yes. That's what that mid quarter check it is to go.

  All right, let's get back into the middle of the lane, get focused and accelerate through the rest of the quarter.

  [Speaker 2] (42:40 - 42:41)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (42:41 - 42:56)

  We also have. Yeah. So then there's one on one coaching sessions through the course of that as well.

  So making sure that I can help the CFOs on their specific focus areas, which will be different for every CFO in whatever their specific goals are.

  [Speaker 2] (42:56 - 42:57)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (42:57 - 43:40)

  And then we're also one of the sort of evolutions or a couple of the evolutions that we made as a result of the lockdown was we're now running an annual CFO of the future community event, which will bring all of my CFOs and my aspiring CFOs together for an annual event, which will be amazing. And then there's just some other sort of webinars and insights across the course of the of the 12 months. So it's it's certainly it's not it's not for the faint hearted, but it is for those who are high achievers looking to continue to elevate, push themselves and really looking to, you know, move out of the back office and be seen as a real value creator for the business.

  [Speaker 2] (43:40 - 45:27)

  You're solving a great like this is a significant problem for them. Like, you know, if I think about, you know, we talk about, you know, trying to increase your value proposition, how to increase your day rates, how to, you know, create programs. And I don't think it's always about necessarily how do I sell my big ticket item?

  But it's not about that. It's like what you talk about significance. And I think that what's the most significant problem that's going to hold them back from being able to do that?

  How what do you need to design and then working out? OK, so what's the problem? Here's the solution that it would need.

  And I know you've spent so much time. I know how intentional you are. If for anyone that's listening to this, if you can spend five minutes with Ellen to just see how deeply she thinks about these problems and challenges, but not just problems and challenges, opportunities and how thorough you are in thinking through what will progress these people.

  You've got a huge sense of advocacy about you when you're working with this. And, you know, big part of it is obviously you come with a lot of context and credibility because and that empathy that you have and deep insight into that that you were then able to evolve it into. OK, so now that I realize here's the focus, here's the challenge, here's the problem, here's the opportunity.

  OK, what do I need to design to solve that? And as a result, you went, if I could design anything, it would be this thing. It'd be called a CFO boardroom.

  It would be. And you were so clear. So as a result of that, like just to get an idea for those who are listening, particularly, could I do something like that?

  Like what do they normally what what kind of price point do people pay for something like this, ?

  [Speaker 1] (45:28 - 47:00)

  Yeah, absolutely. It's a $20,000 program plus GST, and that's the excluding GST price. One of the things that's really served us well, CFOs are a funny bunch.

  So not all of them. You would there is the assumption that they would be being, you know, very senior in the organization. They might have their business sponsored the program.

  That's not always the case. Sometimes these CFOs just understand the benefit this will have on them personally. And so we can we kind of cut that $20,000 in whichever way is most useful or easy for for them.

  One of the two of the big values, I suppose, that you role model, Jane, really well, that I really seek to apply in my business, the two values of generosity and ease. And, you know, so those are the two things that I say, well, you know what? If you're in, I'm just going to figure out how we can make it work for you.

  I don't want I don't want the cash to be the issue or to be a pain point for you. Let's just you know, how do we make it easy? And so if they do opt in, you know, being a 12 month program, if we don't have a program currently launching and they want to opt in a few months early, we go, great.

  We'll spread that 20 grand over a longer period. I'll give you some free coaching sessions along the way so you can get a running start to the program. And we just make it really easy because, again, I don't want transactional relationships with these people.

  I want to know who they are. I want to give them the best result they can. And so it's just about how do I make it easy and how do I give them a solution that's going to help them?

  [Speaker 2] (47:00 - 47:57)

  I love that. And, Alena, I'm keen to check in on, you know, like you've applied so much stuff, whether it's systems, whether it's marketing, list building, like you've thrown everything at it. You've brought on a team and you've brought on two team members in the last 12 months, like you've invested heavily.

  If someone's listening to this and they're thinking, I was Alena, I'm in that contracting role, I'm starting my practice, they're seeing themselves in you where you were 12 months ago. What would you suggest to them or what do you wish that you had done differently? Or what do you think was the most significant thing that made the biggest has made this traded?

• Advise

  Because your practice has absolutely transformed in the last 12 months. You know, what advice would you have for someone who might be listening to this if they are saying, that's me, that's me?

  [Speaker 1] (48:00 - 48:46)

  OK, what would I do? I think I'd be really so there's a few things. Just be really clear with what what you want.

  Yeah, this is what I typically find. And I find this with my clients as well. And this certainly was the case for me.

  Was I sort of knew what I want? Yeah, but I sort of didn't. And as I said, when I first stepped into this world, I had no idea what it meant.

  And so I think I tried a lot of things and I was I allowed myself to be influenced by people that perhaps weren't the right people to be influenced by. I think there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation in there. Would I be if I didn't have that and all the rest of it?

  But I think what I would say is be really clear. I think it's a self-awareness piece.

  [Speaker 2] (48:47 - 48:47)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (48:47 - 49:24)

  And be really self-aware of what works for you, because you'll get so much advice. You know, I had had lunch with some of my high school girlfriends a couple of weekends ago. Yeah, they were talking.

  I don't even know what they were talking about that. But they were bouncing around a silly business idea. And they went, well, Alan, and maybe is the entrepreneur of the group.

  Maybe you can do this. And I just thought, gosh, it's just a you know, it's it's a weird world that we play in. And people will just offer you really random and nonsensical advice.

  So if you know what you want and if you know what works for you, it just allows you to say thanks. You know, thanks very much. But that's not really for me.

  [Speaker 2] (49:24 - 49:24)

  Right.

  [Speaker 1] (49:25 - 49:31)

  I think the other thing is and I've talked with you about this. I do suffer from comparisonitis at times.

  [Speaker 2] (49:32 - 49:32)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (49:33 - 50:16)

  And and also more recently, a bit of imposter syndrome. And so that comparisonitis one is, you know, what what are you about? Not everyone is going to want to serve CFOs.

  And in fact, people will always say one of my CFOs the other night said to me, Alena, why don't you just focus on CFOs? Like, surely you could work, you know, with others. Yes.

  And I also know that's not the right thing for my business because the you know, my my mentors tell me otherwise. Right. I also know that that will dilute the value that I can offer to CFOs from a but from a comparisonitis perspective, you know, it's just coming back and going, this is me.

  There is only one of me.

  [Speaker 2] (50:17 - 50:17)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (50:17 - 50:32)

  People are going to like me and people are not going to like me. And you know what? That's OK.

  I don't actually need to be all things to all people. I am the oldest child and I'm a people pleaser, which I'm sure many, many, many people watching this will resonate with. Right.

  We want to help everyone.

  [Speaker 2] (50:33 - 50:33)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (50:33 - 53:30)

  But it actually doesn't help anyone if you just try and be all things to all people. So, you know, really staying in your lane and just being comfortable that there are going to be people that are ahead of the game than you, that are doing different things that look more fun and sexy than you. But play your play your own game.

  And you'll be right. As I said, I'm suffering from a bit of imposter syndrome at the moment. That will come because you'll go, oh, is that really me?

  You know, my imposter syndrome, as you said, Jane, because of my business has, you know, been quite successful this year. I'm going, oh, who is this person? What is this business?

  I suppose the culmination of all of that is, you know, finding a finding a mentor, investing in yourself and finding a mentor that will support you in all of in all of those things. You know, whatever date that was in July, June last year changed my life. Yeah, because I resonate with you.

  I trust, you know, as I said, I've been stalking you for a little while. I felt that even though you didn't know me, I felt like I sort of knew where you were coming from and that worked for me. And so when when I started working with you, it was it was the reinforcement.

  OK, you know, I trust Jane. You're very generous in terms of opening us up to your network and all of the ideas, you know, to help steer me in the right direction. And I suppose that's the thing, whether it's comparison artists, whether it's imposter syndrome, whether it's or maybe I should try this or maybe I should try that.

  Like you're the person that just goes, all right, let's just come back to. I mean, we even had the conversation the other day. And this is exactly, you know, what I what I needed and what I loved is I said, I've just got this little idea about how many options I should give for my finance leadership team problem, a program.

  And you went, well, let's just come back to the value that you've committed to you've committed to these potential clients. And let's just break that like it came back down to the. All right.

  It's not the it's not the shallow just to sell the thing. What is the benefit that you're promising to give them if they come into that? And to me, like it's just that credibility piece.

  It's the I'm really comfortable when I'm selling programs for twenty thousand dollars a pop, I'm really comfortable that it's worth it. I'm really comfortable that I'm going to give them a very minimum of twenty thousand dollars of value back. And I think that, you know, I was speaking, talking to someone recently and, you know, my new business manager, you know, is looking at this weird game that we play, Jane, and going, look at all these zeros like this is ridiculous.

  It's not about it's it's not about the money. But what the money does allow us to do is be really generous and to solve big problems for people. And I think, you know what?

  If that's if that's what it takes, then I'm so up for that. And I'm so up for doing the work and creating the opportunities for my CFOs and also for my family.

  [Speaker 2] (53:30 - 53:31)

  Yeah.

  [Speaker 1] (53:31 - 53:34)

  All right. So that we can create this lifestyle that we want for ourselves.

  [Speaker 2] (53:34 - 55:53)

  If you move from Sydney, you'd move to the central coast. If you get to follow, follow Alena on social media, you'll see she puts up beautiful photos of the beach and a beautiful time. I think that's really ultimately what it's all about, isn't it?

  Is I always think, you know, I love I ask the question each day is am I living the dream and if I'm living the dream is like what's missing from the dream or how good is the dream today? And I watch you and I go, there's so many women that that have these aspirations of living that life of the design of how they want it to look, whether it goes, you know what? We don't need to live in the city.

  We can live in this place. You know, you're still running one of, you know, the signature program of your dreams. You got happy of your dreams, kids of your dreams, living that place of your dreams, you've got this incredible lifestyle.

  And I think that's for particularly for women in consulting is that's the whole reason is flexibility, freedom and have fun with what you're doing and to have that impact. And if I think about what you've talked about today, Alena, I think about it's I think it's what you know, you talk so much about intention and purpose. And I think about Simon Sinek's start with why everything's going to start with why.

  But what I love about what you've done in particular is you I think you also ask the question just as much is it it starts with who who do you care about? Who do you really like? You care deeply about those clients that you have.

  You know them intimately. And I think if if there's anything that we can learn from you and the trajectory that you've been on and your practices exploded over the last 12 months is your obsession around solving those particular issues and problems and just how deeply you're thinking about them all the time. So I really take my hat off to you.

  And I really want to acknowledge you for that. And thanks so much for jumping on today. If people want to jump out, jump out, if people want to reach out people jumping out of closets and things in your house and if people want to get in touch with you, maybe they want to know a bit about the CFO boardroom, even if they just want to follow you and be inspired by you, as we all are.

  What would you like people to do?

  [Speaker 1] (55:53 - 56:25)

  Yeah, absolutely. LinkedIn is a great place to start. You know, just follow me on LinkedIn, connect with me on LinkedIn.

  I'm pretty, pretty present on LinkedIn in terms of giving you an insight into what what events I've got on and how we can connect. People are always willing to, you know, jump onto my website, alanabennett.com.au, they can even email me at alana at alana bennett.com.au. I'm just a normal human being. You know, I love to have a chat.

  I love to learn about people. So, you know, as I said, keep it easy, keep it easy, keep it simple. And let's have fun.

  [Speaker 2] (56:26 - 56:35)

  Oh, thank you again for being on. And you've been so generous with the insights and being able to delve into your practice. And hopefully we get to have you on again one day soon.

  [Speaker 1] (56:35 - 56:38)

  So thanks, Jane. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

  [Speaker 2] (56:38 - 56:38)

  My pleasure.

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