Episode 87- Leadership and Organisational Culture Expert, Melanie Marshall

28 Jun

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In this episode of The Jane Anderson Show, I am excited to have the opportunity to interview Melanie Marshal, one of the remarkable women I know personally. Melanie is a leadership and organisational culture expert with a mission to create adaptive workplaces and develop leaders at every level.

As a Royal Australian Air Force veteran and previous public servant with experience in hospitals, councils, IT, and multiple state and federal government departments, Melanie understands complex service organisations where demand always exceeds capacity.

Multi-disciplined by nature, Melanie offers over 20 years of expertise in management and leadership, employee experience, service delivery, organisational performance, and people development.

A published author, and Stevie Award Winner for Thought Leadership, Melanie has been featured on multiple podcasts, including The Oxford Review UK, as a specialist in trust, organisational culture, service improvement, and digital transformation.

Melanie provides independent advisory and coaching services for senior executives and managers of large scale, multi-year, government-wide and cross-agency programs, and services worth $15M to billions.

The things Melanie loves helping clients achieve include:

The ability to connect people’s everyday efforts with longer term strategy
Enabling clarity and confidence to make evidence-based decisions
Identifying and implementing practical improvements for the best possible outcomes
Providing services that are adaptable and sustainable

Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

Jane Anderson introduces her podcast, "The Jane Anderson Brand New Show," aimed at experts seeking to enhance their impact, influence, and income in their businesses and careers. She emphasizes the importance of personal connections in business, asserting that people prefer to engage with those they know, like, and trust. The podcast focuses on interviewing women with thought leadership and corporate consulting practices, typically growing from six to seven figures. Anderson's community, "Women with Influence," comprises women with B2B thought leadership consulting practices across various industries, primarily in Australia. She highlights the diverse backgrounds and inspiring journeys of her guests, aiming to share their stories with her audience.
Melanie Marshall, the special guest, is introduced as a leadership and organizational culture expert with experience in diverse sectors, including the Royal Australian Air Force, public service, IT, and multiple government departments. Marshall's multidisciplinary approach, coupled with over 20 years of experience in management and leadership, enables her to offer valuable insights into trust, organizational culture, service improvement, and digital transformation. Her services cater to senior executives and managers of large-scale government-wide programs, aiding organizations with turnovers ranging from $15 million to $1 billion. Marshall's passion lies in creating adaptive workplaces, developing leaders, and implementing practical improvements for sustainable outcomes. Jane Anderson praises Marshall's warm personality, describing her as magnetic and radiant, and they discuss the importance of aligning one's work with problems that energize them.
Melanie Marshall shares her career journey, spanning various industries, including military, personal training, government, healthcare, defense, and IT. Despite the seeming disparity, Marshall identifies a common thread of focusing on systemic improvements to enhance service delivery and employee experience. She discusses her transition from resolving toxic team cultures as an employee to offering independent consulting services to organizations. Marshall emphasizes the importance of internal capabilities and building deep relationships with clients to foster sustainable change. She rejects the notion of executives and managers as the sole leaders, advocating for leadership development at all levels. Marshall finds fulfillment in developing others' leadership skills within their respective domains, aligning her work with problems she loves solving and delivering value to clients.
Melanie Marshall reflects on the benefits of transitioning to independent practice, emphasizing that she feels more connected than ever. She highlights the importance of connection and purpose in her work, asserting that intentional connections with like-minded individuals provide a sense of community and support. Marshall discusses her approach to staying connected, including reaching out to former colleagues and engaging with communities like the Women Influence Group. Despite being somewhat introverted, Marshall appreciates the control and productivity that come with working independently. She expresses gratitude for the opportunity to choose her clients and work methods, which has significantly increased her productivity compared to her time as an employee.
Melanie Marshall shares her journey of overcoming challenges and achieving productivity in her independent practice. She recalls moments of self-doubt and stress, particularly during the transition period when she lacked clarity on packaging her services and generating leads. Marshall highlights the importance of learning new skills, such as LinkedIn lead generation, and refining her communication approach to authentically connect with potential clients. Despite initial struggles, Marshall experienced a breakthrough by focusing on the problems she loves solving and engaging in meaningful conversations with prospects. She emphasizes the significance of process, confidence, and authenticity in building a successful practice, acknowledging the support she received from mentors and peers in the thought leadership space.
Melanie Marshall discusses the role of vulnerability and co-creation in her client relationships. She reflects on her journey from portraying a facade of corporate strength to embracing vulnerability and sharing personal stories with clients. Marshall emphasizes the importance of trust and mutual respect in co-creating solutions with clients, noting the courage required to navigate the experimental nature of their work together. She credits her willingness to share vulnerabilities and stories as a catalyst for building deeper connections and fostering client trust. Marshall concludes by expressing her genuine appreciation for her clients and the collaborative, trust-based approach they embody in their work together.
Melanie Marshall continues to share insights into her journey and offers advice for those facing similar challenges. She reflects on her client base, primarily serving hospital and health services, councils, and now venturing into corrections and youth justice sectors, leveraging her deep understanding of these environments from her own experiences. Marshall emphasizes the importance of empathy, recognizing the perennial demand exceeding supply and the systemic constraints inherent in these organizations. To overcome her own struggles and find direction, Marshall adopted a mantra of focusing on one thing at a time and aligning her efforts with the energy she wanted to create, which ultimately saved her from despair.
Jane and Melanie reminisce about challenging times and the importance of maintaining belief and trust in oneself, even when seeking guidance from others. They discuss the power of focusing on generating leads and authentically connecting with potential clients, as evidenced by Melanie's success with LinkedIn lead generation. They also share anecdotes, such as Melanie's luggage mishap during a client visit, highlighting the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in building trust and connection with clients.
Melanie delves into the concept of energy and its role in attracting clients and driving positive outcomes. She emphasizes the importance of creating an energy of positivity, hope, and confidence in tackling complex problems, which resonates with clients and fosters trust. Melanie advises listeners to focus on the energy they want to embody and identify the one thing they can do to start generating that energy. She emphasizes simplicity and the need to break down complex problems into manageable chunks, using her "mega model" framework to structure her thinking and service offerings effectively. By giving her thinking a framework and packaging it into clear service offerings, Melanie gained confidence and clarity, empowering her to navigate challenges and build a successful practice. She encourages others feeling overwhelmed to work on defining their own mega model as a starting point for organizing their thinking and approach.
The conversation concludes with Jane and Melanie discussing the importance of clarity in service offerings and the necessity of frameworks to help clients understand the value they will receive. Melanie emphasizes the significance of developing a foundational model or "mega model" to anchor service offerings and guide clients through the decision-making process. They stress the need for simplicity and quality over quantity in developing intellectual property, acknowledging the time and effort required to create robust frameworks. Melanie shares her preferred platforms for engagement, primarily LinkedIn, where she regularly posts articles and videos, and her website. Jane acknowledges Melanie's expertise and the practical insights she has shared, highlighting the importance of cultivating connection and energy in client interactions.
In the closing remarks, Jane expresses admiration for Melanie's resilience and resourcefulness in navigating challenges and leading corporate transformations. She commends Melanie for her inspirational presence and encourages her to continue making a difference in the thought leadership space, especially for women. Melanie reciprocates the appreciation, thanking Jane for her role in creating a supportive community and facilitating connections among thought leaders. The conversation ends on a note of gratitude and mutual admiration, reflecting the collaborative spirit fostered within their community.

Full Show Transcript:

Hi there, my name is Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.

So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. Hi there and welcome to the Jane Anderson Show. I'm so thrilled that you are here and that we get to have a chat with our very special guests today.

The podcast is all about being able to interview women who have thought leadership and corporate consulting practices and they're typically growing from six to seven figures. So this community that I run is called Women with Influence and we have a community of women who have B2B thought leadership consulting practices, working with a huge variety of industries, mostly across Australia and working public, private sector from government, aviation, manufacturing, you name it, they're working in those industries. So this podcast series, I interview some of the people who are in our community so you can hear some of the stories and the really inspiring journeys that they've had coming from corporate journeys right through to where they are in their practices today.

Our very special guest today is a woman called Melanie Marshall. So Melanie Marshall is a leadership and organisational culture expert and she's on a mission to create adaptive workplaces and develop leaders at every level. As a Royal Australian Air Force veteran and previous public servant, she has experience in working with hospitals, councils, IT and multiple state and federal government departments.

She understands complex service organisations where demand always exceeds capacity. She has a really multidisciplinary approach and by her nature, she's got over 20 years experience in management and leadership, employee experience, service delivery, organisational performance and people development. She's a published author, a Stevie Award winner for thought leadership and she's been featured on multiple podcasts, places like the Oxford Review in the UK and she's a specialist in trust.

So she talks a lot about organisational culture, service improvement and digital transformation. She provides independent advisory services and coaching services for senior executives and managers of really large scale, multi-year government wide cross agency programs and her services for those who are turning over $15 million through to $1 billion in organisations. She loves helping her clients to achieve more every day, create clarity and confidence based on evidence-based decisions.

She really loves being able to identify and implement really practical improvements to help them get better outcomes and providing services that are really adaptable and sustainable. So I'm thrilled she's here. Please enjoy the interview with Melanie Marshall.
Melanie, I'm so glad you're here. We've made it to having a conversation on a podcast. Yay!

It is so good to be here, Jane. Yeah, you are such an inspiration. You have been for me and I know you are for so many other women in the community developing their practices as thought leaders and experts in their field.

So thanks for having me. I'm a little bit humbled by it and had you have said that I'd be here a couple of years ago, I probably would have laughed and went, really? But here we are.

You've always had the spark, Melanie. We've always believed in you. Like, yeah, she's coming.

She's coming one day. We know that she's cut from the same cloth as the rest of us. So, so thrilled to see your success and really grateful to have the opportunity to support you in your practice.

You do an incredible job and you are just an absolute, when I think of you, I don't just think about the great work that you do, but I also think about who you are as human, like the experience of, you are just so radiant. You just always have this smile on your face. You're so warm.

I see, you know, I've been out, we went to an event recently where we went to this charity event and I just see how you are with people and everyone. You're so magnetic. People are just so attracted to you.

So, and we were talking just briefly before and you said you're working with this client who realised he's onto a good thing. So he's signing you up and getting you locked in. But I really think that you're a great example of not just what we do, but how we vibrate and that, just that energy and that we bring.

I think that we all have an energy and a vibration that we bring and you are, you just vibrate at the highest level. It's fantastic and a surprise.

[Speaker 2] (4:57 - 4:57)
Thank you.

[Speaker 1] (4:57 - 17:05)
It wasn't always that case though. I think sometimes we focus on what we think we should be doing as opposed to what we need to be doing that lights us up. And yeah, having really good clarity around knowing the problems that you love solving.

When I figured that out, that's when my energy started to shift and yeah, finding the problems that you love solving, that's the way to go. Because I think for a long time in my career, I used to get stuck in doing what I was good at and getting more of what I was good at, but it wasn't necessarily giving me the right kind of energy and then I'd become kind of resentful. I'd get burnt out.

And I was really quite confused for quite some period of time because I had a great reputation. I never had problems getting any kind of work, but it never felt like it was something that I wanted to continue to do. And then when I really sort of stepped back from it and went, hang on, what are the problems that energise me?

What are the challenges that I really kind of roll my sleeves up on and go, yes, let's get into this and run towards the crazy. When I figured that out, then it became really clear and things then became very easy. And it's funny how you call me magnetic because that was actually my big word.

So you talk a lot about having a big word. About two years ago, my big word was I want to be magnetic, but magnetic in a good way, magnetic in drawing people with the right energies who genuinely wanted to be part of solving a problem or be partnering on solutions that would make a really big difference to how people experience their workplace. And that's why I'm so big on workplace culture, not just from a top level, let's all be nice to each other, but from a very deep or how do we make the mechanics of culture work for you?

When people have an understanding that it is a much more complex beast, but they're not shying away from it. And they're, I guess, like sponges and craving for how do we work on this to create something that's more practical and sustainable? They're the things I love doing.

So, yeah, that's why my energy is good, because I know that the people that I work with, they're committed. They have a really good appreciation for the challenges that they have. They're not going to go away with a magic wand or quick fix solutions.

And they're deeply invested in creating initiatives and doing the work so that it is a sustainable outcome and people have genuine benefits behind it. So, yeah, that's where the energy comes from, knowing that you make a difference to the people that you serve on the problems that you love solving. Yeah, it's not hard.

Well, that's right. Then it's not hard because you get up and you're going, today's going to be a great day. I'm really excited.

About what we're going to do today. You're not going, oh, groundhog day. Got to get up.

This work takes a lot of energy when it takes a lot of friction out of it when you've, if it's the problems that you solve. So powerful insight. So going a step before that, Melanie, if we go right back to Keen to tell us a little bit about your background and how did you sort of come to starting your own practice?

Yeah, well, very long story short. I've had about seven or eight different career shifts across about eight or nine different industries, ranging from being ex-military in the Air Force, a personal trainer, working in government, hospitals, defence, councils, all kinds of different spaces. I've even worked in IT, in private companies as well.

They might seem on the surface all very random and disparate and they kind of are, but the common thread in all of them is about looking at things from a big picture and a systems perspective and then finding ways to improve them. Not necessarily for the customers, but for the employees that are working and delivering those services. Because if service delivery is smooth and it works well for them, you're going to get really great services to customers.

And certainly my background is those customers are actually us. They're the community. So that deep commitment to delivering really good community based services has always comes from looking after the people that are delivering them in the first instance and making their job as smooth and as seamless as possible so that they can deliver and provide their talent.

Because the one thing that I got caught into for quite some time was the conflict resolution space. I was working very heavily with organisations with lots and lots of team cultures that were very toxic, very depressing, very heavy to the point where you'd want to have a shower at the end of the day and try to scrub the muck off before you'd want to go back in again. So I worked as an employee for organisations that were in that space for many, many years.

And then when I got out and I got into contracting and consulting with other companies, I was then going back into organisations that were still in that kind of space. And it's totally preventable. And the thing that used to really, I guess, kind of irritate me before I left the public service was all the cool jobs were going to the external consultants.

So I'd be looking at my colleagues next to me going, we could put our heads together and solve this. We could do things differently here and really make a difference. But we've got all this internal street cred, but we weren't being given sort of the traction or the permission to be able to have that kind of a reach because it was always an assumption that, well, it's an internal problem.

Somebody external has to come in and kind of help us out. But quite often, I think the power is from within. So after seeing that for a number of years and getting really frustrated, I kind of went, you know what, if you can't beat them, I'm going to join them, but I'm going to join them in a different way.

So I became a contractor working in different government areas. And one of the things that I was always saying in a number of my contracts is there are two ways that you can treat me. One, you can treat me as a contractor and I can come in and I can do whatever it is that you want to direct and tell me to do.

Or you can use me as your own internal independent consultant who can work with the teams to design and deliver better services, make slight improvements to how things are working. But all of the strength is going to be built from within and you're going to get to keep the capability. So there won't be like a team of five to 10 consultants coming in, doing some stuff and then absorbing a whole stack of corporate knowledge and then, you know, floating back up again and then going to the next organisation.

You get to keep everything that we're doing because we're going to grow the skills as we go. And people would often go, well, I'll pick, I'll definitely pick B because that's the best value for money because it's like, I don't care what you put because I'm getting paid regardless, but you might as well get more value out of it and use these skills instead. So I had that organisational development or capability mindset has permeated through my entire career.

And it's always been about developing leaders at every level. This notion that executives and managers are leaders is absolute garbage. And I think our most powerful offer and value that we can deliver when we are independence, running our own practice and we can go in and build those deep relationships with clients is we're going to do this together.

We're going to truly partner on this. And my mission is to do myself out of a job. I want to be able to give all of my skills, all of my expertise to you.

And anything that we don't know, we'll build together and we'll figure it out as we go. It'll be lots of fun, but you're going to totally own it. So that's always been the motivation.

I really like building and growing other people and creating them. When you talk about thought leaders, I always sort of had a bit of a little vomit in my mouth when somebody would say, oh, you're developing a thought leader practice. I'd go, oh, that sounds a bit meh, but it's sort of three things.

It's your emotional leadership, your thought leadership, and it's your practical leadership. And when you can package that type of thinking and being as a service and grow other people's capability in that space, in their field, that's the stuff that like just totally lights me up. I love developing other people's leadership skills in their own lanes.

So, yeah, it becomes quite easy. And certainly with the practices that you help people develop, Jane, it is about being really clear around the problems that you love solving, packaging your thinking as a service that delivers immense value. And then the other part is, well, delivering is selling.

So I never feel like I sell a damn thing, although I do because I have to be sustainable. It is very easy because you deliver a really great service, you deliver a great conversation, a great connection. And of course, people are going to be drawn to that and they want to work with you.

And that feeling is mutual. I don't have a mission to connect with hundreds of thousands of people. I really have a very small, tight client group because it means that I can intimately understand at a very deep level what their culture is like organisationally, but also what are all the subcultures like, who are all of the key people that need to be supported and developed and grown.

So that's, yeah, I can talk all day about this because I'm super passionate about it. But that's the value of being able to go out on your own because you set up your practice right. You're never on your own.

I feel more connected than what I've ever felt. Is that right? Yeah, because that's a real fear for a lot of people.

I'm going to miss having a team and I'm going to miss all this stuff and now I'm going to be stuck in my office at home. And but no, that's not been the case for you. No, I feel more connected than ever because there are two things that I believe everyone craves, connection and purpose.

And when you connect with other people who connect with your energy and you think you're just going to be fun, you're going to be great, even if things are going to be tough, it's never a matter of if we'll work together. It's like that love it hello. So I know straight away if it's a love it hello, I will be able to serve this person, whether it's now, whether it's 10 years time, I don't even care.

It's love it hello. We are going to work with one another when we find the opportunity and it's going to happen. So that is an intentional connection that I feel.

So even when I'm not working directly with a particular organisation or a particular client group, I still make the calls every now and then. Hey, going, what's up? Oh, that's great.

So it's I'm never lonely in that regard. And if ever I do get lonely, well, then I'll reach into the group that you've got, the Women Influence Group, and say, hey, let's walk and talk and just have a chat just for the sake of having a chat. So I think you don't have to be lonely at the same time.

I'm a little bit of an introvert, so I quite like my alone time. The biggest, I think, benefit that I've had is having some of the quiet and being able to control who I work with, how I work with them.

[Speaker 2] (17:05 - 17:06)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (17:06 - 21:00)
And when it also means I'm like a thousand times more productive than I've ever been. It's phenomenal. I was talking to my husband, Anthony, the other day, and I said, I can't believe how much more I can achieve within short periods of time than when I was working for other people.

I've done myself out of a job now. I'm totally unemployable, because I think if I was to go back and work as an employee for somebody else, I would feel too constrained. So, yes, I've had a white-knuckle journey to get to this point.

And you and I joke about that a lot, Jane, because you've seen me on my white-knuckles. I've seen the white-knuckles. The white-knuckles and that ultimate fear in my face going, what the hell am I doing?

Even less than just over 12 months ago, I was sobbing on the bedroom floor, going, what the hell am I doing? This is not work. Like, how do I go from here?

So to go from that to this, but having the process, trusting in it, working on your energy, really chasing that connection with the right people on the things that light you up. And that's where the purpose comes in. Knowing what's the problem that you'd like to solve, and then how can you be purposeful in that space, owning your own leadership of that.

Yeah, I mean, that's where it starts to become very easy. But take us back there, Melanie. Take us back to that moment.

You're on the floor. Oh, gosh. I just don't know if I can do this.

I don't know if I've got it in me and all that self-doubt. What were the challenges that you were experiencing? And what was some of the challenges that you were experiencing?

Oh, gosh. I'd moved interstate. So I'd lost my previous connections to old work.

So as I was transitioning from working for other people to working with other people, like two other people in a different way, yeah, I didn't know how to get to properly package up my thinking or my services. I had lots of great ideas. I didn't have enough clarity around who I wanted to work with because organizational culture and change, it's such a big, massive beast.

There are so many different disciplines that you have to use to be able to do them well. I was struggling with figuring out, well, how do I market that? Because the market is flooded with, oh, if you do a whole stack of leadership stuff, your culture is going to change.

And it was like, bullshit, that's not how it works. So yeah, breaking out of that, but knowing how to do it in a way that wasn't going to make it overcomplicated was hard. So I didn't have the connections.

I wasn't clear around how to package up my value or how to sell that. By the way, you had already written a book. Oh yeah, I'd already written a book.

Yeah, I'd already written a book. I'd done all of the thinking. I'd written a book, but that was the book that was written in frustration as a result of constantly being embedded in organizations where I didn't feel trusted and my colleagues or the people that I was working with at the time didn't feel trusted.

Yeah, so I'd written a book on trust because it is the foundation for healthy organizations and teams. And that's by the subtitle for that book. But then, funny way, well, you can't necessarily commercialize trust.

So how are you?

[Speaker 2] (21:00 - 21:01)
I had one.

[Speaker 1] (21:01 - 37:09)
I wrote one too. I know you wrote one too. You had the same problem.

We wrote it about the same time, I think, actually. Oh, there you go. It was off the back of the time it was the Royal Commission.

There was a lot of conversation around trust, but because people don't want to admit they've got a trust problem. That's right. Hard one to sell.

Yeah, that's exactly right. They're happy to promote it as part of their values or what they want. But yeah, you don't normally promote that you don't have it.

So I'd written a book. I was very good at being able to structure my thinking, but I didn't know how to package that into a commercial offer. I didn't know how to generate leads out of nowhere.

So I was really stuck. Even my previous connections or people that I knew, they were all in Canberra. I was now in Queensland and I knew no one.

So how did I start? That's where I was at. The family were also struggling to make the transition.

My husband had also changed from being a tradie painter into something. He wasn't quite sure what he's studying now and he's in a good space. My son was struggling to transition with sort of late primary.

It was just a red hot mess. And at the time, yeah, I was the primary earner in the family and all of a sudden I didn't have an income to rely on. So I managed to get enough of bits and pieces of little bits of work here and there to sustain us, but it was just not enough.

The stress that we were under was extreme. And back then I knew that I wanted to work with you because I knew that I was missing that branding piece and then how to package up my thinking to be able to sell something. But I wasn't in a position where I even had basic leads or knew how to even get people in the door.

So I did a LinkedIn lead generation course, which really helped. That helped tighten up who I was, how I needed to sort of communicate and just start reaching out gently, not in a salesy kind of way, but in an authentic, well, how can I provide information that serves a particular community and find people and start having conversations that I could then make the connection with new people who might like the things that I can do. So it was trusting the process of that and learning how to use LinkedIn.

It was learning how to take what was massive organisational culture thinking into, well, what are the three key things that I believe and I know work that often don't get focused on? And being able to create clean models for that, that was really helpful because then that helped when I had conversations with people. So when I didn't initially meet someone, they'd go, oh, you know, what are you selling?

I said, well, I'm actually not selling anything to you today. What I want to do is just, I want to understand whether or not you have the problems I love solving and I can work with you. So can we have a talk about...

There you go. That's a different conversation than selling. Yeah.

Well, it would totally put people at ease and it would be a really good, fun conversation with me because then I'd be learning what do they need based on their problems. Everyone had problems that I really love solving. And it was then a case of, well, this is easy.

You just need help. Yeah, I can help you with that. It's a matter of how much or how little help do you want?

And then that then started getting really good momentum. And then I don't need to get my foot in the door a little bit. And then that whole delivering something really good, I then sell on more and more and more.

So I started to get really good momentum just by stepping back. My energy wasn't one of neediness and pushiness. And that was really hard, particularly when I was so desperate at the time to fight your instincts and kind of go, just act like it's not a big deal and just have the conversation.

And if they're in the great space to work with you, it will happen. It will happen when it needs to happen. And it did.

And thankfully, things have just gone from strength to strength, a lot of self-talk. Oh, it was heaps. It was a lot.

I do have a psychology degree. I'm not a psychologist by trade, but I do have clients actually who work in the mental health space. And they just say to me, oh my goodness, you say that you're not a psychologist, but you are.

You're very good at saying exactly what we need and working through our heads to help us get our own clarity so that we can deliver really cool stuff. So it's like, well, I'll take it. But yeah, it was a realisation of what you're currently doing has to change.

Leaning into people who have done those things before. Other people who've trod this path in terms of the thought leadership space, pricing, valuing your time, all that sort of thing. And sort of being able to build, is it a confidence with that too?

Yeah, it's process. It's then confidence in the process. And then that notion of that just testing and adjusting to make it your own.

You can be given processes, you can be given advice, but you have to have, you've really got to have a deep level of ownership of, well, how do I make this authentic for me? So how can I embed my own values into this so that when I say these things, I know that it's authentic. And once again, it's focusing on what's the energy that I'm wanting to create here.

And if that's going to be my focus, that's what I'm going to create. So magnetic was my big word because I wanted to be magnetic for people to be so drawn to me that they would be craving to work with me. And I'm not knocking down hundreds and thousands of offers, but I don't need to and I don't want to, because that's not the practice that I built and that's not what I want to build.

But as far as everyone I work with, I totally love them. I really do. And that sounds really cheesy and corny, but I do.

Seeing them always lights me up. Always, even when they're in a yellow space. Every time you talk about them, your face lights up when you talk about your clients.

It's fantastic. Yeah, well, we just have like a really good mutual respect and it's always founded on trust and it's always founded on, oh, okay, well, if we don't know how to do this, well, why don't we do the opposite of everything that doesn't work? It's bound to work.

It's the experimental side of things that you can have. You're having to get into a bit of that co-creation. That's a vulnerable space for a client and for you.

But if you've got that trust, they'll trust and go, okay, well, if I'm going to do this, I want to do it with Melody because I have the courage. I don't really know what I'm doing, but she's prepared to try too. And I know she's got my back.

Yeah, that's right. And once upon a time, I thought that I had to be this strong corporate chick. And then I learned that from somebody who looked much meaner and tougher than I was, he came across me and he just said, you know what?

You've just got to break down those barriers because we want to be able to help you. And it's not all on you to fix all of our problems. And I mean, that was many years ago now, but it's stuck with me and sharing my own vulnerability and my own stories along the way where it fits is really helpful.

And you asked me before around who I primarily serve. I primarily serve hospital and health services, mostly hospitals, councils, and I'm also starting to now lean into corrections and youth justice, not from a perspective of the community themselves, but certainly the employees within those organisations. So, and the reason why I love serving them is because I've either worked in and around those organisations myself, so I understand where they're at from the inside out.

I have a deep empathy that demand is always going to exceed supply. And I also have a very battle-influenced understanding that the constraints that they have are usually been inherited over many, many years. And there requires some systemic changes that without being too overwhelmed, it's start with one thing and start with something that's practical.

And to get myself off that sobbing floor mess just over a year ago, I had to make that my own. I had to implement that myself as part of my own mantra. Start with one thing and get it done.

Aim and focus on the thing that I most want to feel. And that's the thing that saved me. And if I couldn't figure it out myself, I'd be then knocking on the door of somebody else who I thought might've had a better handle on things, and then I'd be getting their advice.

And hence why I then become knocked on your door, Jane, and said, oh, I need your help. So yeah, that's kind of how it sort of came to be. Has that answered your question?

Has that been helpful? You are just such an inspiration for the journey because as I said, you make it all look so easy and you just, you know, this is how it's all done. And you just cruise around and you've got a beautiful smile on your face.

And it's like, oh, that's how I want to feel. Like you're around you and your people go, wow, like I want to practice that I light up that much in my work. So I think it's really valuable for those who haven't met you before in the backstory and to hear, because I remember the White Knuckles Day and I've been there too.

And just take so much belief in yourself and trust. It's a vulnerable space when you're at that point to trust someone to help you. But you did something really smart is you focused on Leeds.

Was where you started. Yes. Even if you couldn't necessarily afford to work with someone on advice, because I would have said Leeds.

So it was a smart thing to go and do and work out. Well, how can I do this? You've got a phenomenal LinkedIn process now.

And I know that. And even I remember one day in the last year, you sent something out. Was it your white paper or something that you sent out on LinkedIn and you had a call.

It was 10 minutes. And then it was a six-figure program sold off the back of that. I couldn't believe it either.

Amazing. And the things that you've implemented, there's so many little things. But the other thing is just how you show up.

I love this story. And some of us that we, Melanie and I were laughing about it the other day, because you went up to the Northern Territory and your luggage didn't turn up and you were delivering to a client. So you're delivering up there in T-shirts and jeans and you had no makeup and everything.

You'd go and walk about. And what was even more beautiful about it was that you didn't just go, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. And you just sucked it up.

But you shared it on LinkedIn, which was absolutely gold and hysterical. And it's just so true to form of your magnetism and your vulnerability, but just authenticity. And you're just like, I can laugh at myself.

And then finally the luggage turned up and then, okay, I do actually normally dress professional. Here's that normal version. I think that's a really incredible thing that you did, because we've all been in that situation.

And it's not fun. You can't be someone that you're not. It is what it is.

And you got to roll with it. If my specialty is creating adaptive leaders and organizations, I have to embody that. You have to embody the thing that you are creating with other people.

If you don't, you're a fraud. So yeah, it was funny because even at the time when the client was watching me at the airport, they were sort of sitting back going, how is she going to react? They were really like, how's she going to react to this?

Is she going to like totally lose her cool? And they were so impressed with how I handled it. And it was only, I think it was only one moment where after, I think it was about three days of trying to get my luggage back, the airport had asked me to fill out a particular form.

And it was their form. This is the luggage. These are the boxes that you need.

They didn't even read their own form. I got half of my luggage and then the other half, they left wherever it was because they didn't read their form. And as he was talking to me about it, I just sort of went, oh, for sake, it's your own form.

Read your own form. And that's pretty cool. You hadn't lost your cool for three days.

I hadn't lost my cool for three days. And it was only in that moment where I just kind of gave a bit of a cold prickly because it's like, it's your own form, people. Like, it's not hard to read your own form.

And that even impressed the client even more because she said, then it was in that moment, I knew you were one of us. So, yeah, powerful connection. I just love that.

Amazing. I love that story. And it was one of the best moments, I think, of 2023 coming through the LinkedIn feed.

I do need to do some more videos because they are the easiest way, I think, to connect with people. So it's the mission to get into that a bit more. Always.

Always. The content cloud, I call it. Oh, gosh.

Have you done your content? You really should be doing a video. But Melanie, for those who are listening to this and kind of thinking, okay, well, I'm where Melanie is now.

I'm coming through the toughest stuff. I really want to show up well. Maybe I've written a book and you really, maybe you haven't got the book necessarily.
Because I think sometimes that does happen where I have some people come to us who've got books already written, but it's not been the right angle or where they've really, it's the book to drive them where they've needed to go. So based on people sitting here going, how do I get to be Melanie when I grow up? What couple of pieces of advice would you have for them?

What would you encourage them to do or not do? Yeah. Well, firstly, it's about what is the energy that you want to create and feel for yourself and give to other people.

So focus on, yeah, what's the energy that you want to be putting out there? And then what's the one thing that you need to do to start generating that energy? Right.

And what do you mean by that? When you think of energy, what do you define by that? Yeah.

So for me, and this is, you're a branding expert, right? People connect with a particular energy. And if it resonates with them, they're more likely to work with you, buy from you and keep you as a person or in their world.

For me, it was about, I want to be creating an energy of positivity and hope that regardless of how complex their problem is, there's something in it that's achievable. There's something in it that they already have that they could be leveraging. So for me, it's about creating an energy of confidence over the strengths that you've already got and then being able to amplify them and use them to tackle other problems.

So that was where my focus was. So my focus was, how do I create an energy to solve the problems that I love in a way that's going to light me and this other person up?

[Speaker 2] (37:09 - 37:10)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (37:10 - 37:17)
And when I always sort of leaned into that, and I still do that now, all of the answers become very clear.

[Speaker 2] (37:18 - 37:18)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (37:18 - 37:41)
And then the next part of it is, well then, what's the one thing that will start making that positive shift? So I might look at everything all at once to a certain degree because I'm a systems thinker by nature. But then I go, well, what's the one thing that would help nudge it in the right direction?

Because people say it all the time, action precedes clarity, and it absolutely does.

[Speaker 2] (37:41 - 37:42)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (37:42 - 38:11)
So what's the energy with the problems that you love solving? How do you love solving them? What's the one thing that you can start doing right now to start shifting things in the right direction just to continue?

And then how do you continue that momentum? So you do that one thing, and then you do the next thing. You do that thing, and then you do the next thing.

So that notion of just one thing at a time and then constantly building on it, that's the thing that saved me.

[Speaker 2] (38:11 - 38:12)
Really?

[Speaker 1] (38:12 - 40:29)
Yeah, it still saves me today because I'm a massive overthinker. What type of things did you do to just start that? So once you identified the things that you loved helping people with, and then identifying the energy that you've identified, out of all these things I could do, where do I have my most energy?

What are some examples of some of the things that you did to just start to cultivate that energy? Yeah, so I am a big believer in maintaining an element of physical fitness because if you are physically healthy, then that just leads into every other component of your life. So it's looking after your own mental and physical health.

So nurturing yourself, connecting with yourself. How do I go and connect with nature or with my body so that I can then think more clearly here and more rationally to be my best self here? So that was the other thing.

The other thing was just keeping things really simple. And that's where being able to create a practice model for yourself. And I'm not talking about how you want to run the business, but like your mega model.

So for me, adaptive culture is my thing. There are three elements to that. Leadership at all levels, business intelligence to make smart decisions, and then service delivery to achieve great outcomes.

So when I think in terms of leadership, business intelligence, and service delivery, that's how I break down culture into three components. And then when I have conversations with people or when I'm working on my own IP or thinking about how am I going to develop the next program, I'll look at it and I'll go, well, sounds like the problem that they're most having right now is leadership. So I'll just focus on helping them develop leadership at all levels there.

Or it might be, okay, they're not being able to make smart decisions here. There's not a lot of clarity. And they're complaining a lot about communication being an issue.

That's a business intel problem. Okay, what are some of the measures that they're using to tell stories about whether they're achieving things or not? It's just taking what's a mega model of how you like to work.

[Speaker 2] (40:30 - 40:30)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (40:30 - 48:29)
And then going, how do I then segment it and chunk it down into little bite-sized pieces? I mean, I think you might've mentioned this in some other sessions that we did where you might have an entire buffet of food. What's your entree, your main and your dessert?

And if I think in terms of entrees, mains and desserts for the three core things, which I know make up workplace culture, well then I've got multiple things that I can then build on and expand over time. But I definitely wouldn't hit people with a buffet all at once. And that's where I was stuffing it up before.

I was like, oh gosh, I had no idea. I just kind of talked about the entire buffet to the point where I then even would be forgetting what food I was talking about, how much I was eating. It was overwhelming for me and for them.

But then when I started sort of chunking it down and go, like, what's my mega model of IP? And then what are each of the other little themes of IP under that? Things became- Giving it a framework.

Giving it a framework. Definitely giving my thinking a framework. Then I was able to give my service offerings framework.

Now that I do retainers, it's fantastic because I've got my entire mega model is in my retainer arrangement. And depending on what a client needs and when over that month, it'll be okay. Well, this month, this group needs this.

We're going to do that. Or next month I need this. But I would never have been able to do that if I didn't come up with the mega model and then the smaller models that kind of fit in underneath it.

So structuring your thinking and then packaging that thinking into something that then could be delivered as a service with a very clear sort of understanding of exactly what the value is that you're delivering. That's the thing that just gives you so much confidence. So if there's anybody out there right now feeling overwhelmed, work on your mega model first, right?

Just what's the mega model that encapsulates all of your thinking? And then you can always do your little mini models under that. But knowing your mega model and then just working on one piece at a time as you go around, whether it's a triangle, whether it's a van, whatever model it is, that will save you from your own overwhelm.

That is such great advice. I'm thinking of a couple of people we've done some work with recently and that has come up a few times because they just can do so many things. But that's where it comes unstuck.

Sometimes with the client, because they can't understand how to buy it or what pieces I need. And so it's hard to extrapolate out of it. And then you lose too much time talking about it, nothing to anchor to.

And they can't see what are the elements that they just need. And they go, oh, it's all too hard. And a confused mind says, no, because I've got nothing to grasp onto here.

When we're selling the invisible, that's what happens is that if we haven't got those models, and that's why it's so valuable just to have, like you said, like a mega model or that really foundational model to go, this is at least the model I've got with my offering. And your clusters or your programs are not little programs. We're not talking $5,000 things.

These are big six figure things. So they're big programs, but it's the same regardless of whether you're selling a $500,000 thing, a $100,000 thing, a $50,000 thing or a $10,000 thing, or even a $5,000 thing. People need that framework to understand the value that they're going to get and that they, not just the value, but that you have done the thinking.

You got a plan. You have to do the thinking and it's the rigor and the quality of your thinking that gives you the confidence then to go, I know my stuff. And I know you have a great process around that.

I know we both went through the Thought Letters Business School prior to this around how you structure and build a great piece of intellectual property. Seriously, the investment in getting good at that. And I mean, some people, they can develop their IP really, really quickly.

For me, I take a lot of time to build my models because I then go and do a lot of, read a lot of research. It just takes me a lot longer to build a lot of IP. But when I come out the other side of that, I always feel really, really good because it's like, well, that work is solid.

It's quality. I don't need a lot because a lot overwhelms me. But if what I do is of quality and it still has a meaningful impact, I'm happy with that.

So yeah, I think in terms of quality as opposed to quantity. Yes, in your case, absolutely. Melanie, if people want to follow you, they want to connect with you, some of the ladies where they're in our community, we have some outside the Women with Influence community as well.

But if they want to follow you and learn more about what you do, where would you like them to go? Yeah, so LinkedIn is the easiest, easiest place to go. I am on LinkedIn.

The other, you can check out my website as well, melaniemarshall.com.au. LinkedIn is where I'm most active, probably not as much as I'd like to be of late because I'm in thinking and delivering mode. But certainly that's where I post regular articles and videos of crazy things that happen like losing luggage. Melanie, you've shared so many valuable insights today and for wherever people are in the journey, you know, whether you're starting out, particularly you're a real example of what's possible and trusting yourself, but being resourceful.

It's not just about, OK, I'll be OK and not do anything. It's that you're really pragmatic and you go out, you find people, you work out, well, what's my priority? I've got to lean into where I think the things I'm taking away are really about where your energy soars the most.

Where do you really light up? And you are constantly lit up if you ever forget to meet Melanie in person. She's just like this.

You probably not like it all the time, but it does feel like it's all the time. We have to work out what that is because we have to be easy to work with, easy to be around and bring that hope and optimism, practicality and solutions and value. But man, if you can bring a level of the energy that you talk about, I think you've given us some really practical things today about how to work out what that energy is and how to cultivate it, because that's what gets the repeat work.

That's when they go, I know I'm onto a good thing and you're not working with anybody else. As you say, you know, you're working with big programs. You only need three or four clients.

You don't really need much more than that. So your practice is kind of unique in that you're working in the cultural transformation space. Some of the metrics look a little bit different when you're working in this space.

You don't need 150 clients. We just need because you've only got so much bandwidth. You've got a lot of deep, intimate work.

I love what you said around two things that we really that drive everybody, but particularly for us is feeling connected and that sense of purpose. And if you're coming out of corporate and thinking, I don't know, I'm used to having a team. I don't know if I can do this.

You've given us some really practical ways to think differently about the space that we're working in and the creating. And we have mostly a virtual community, but there's opportunities to meet people face to face, staying connected with customers. I love what you said about if it's love it, hello.

So do I feel like I have a sense of connection because otherwise that can be a hard slog to get through in your practice if you're feeling like you're working with people just for the sake of working with them. You can't. In fact, they're a liability.

They're a liability.

[Speaker 2] (48:29 - 48:29)
They are.

[Speaker 1] (48:30 - 48:30)
Fire them.

[Speaker 2] (48:31 - 48:31)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (48:31 - 48:41)
I've taken, even when I was in a desperate space, I knew the impact of working with people who trained me was never ever going to be worth it.

[Speaker 2] (48:41 - 48:41)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (48:41 - 50:12)
Because they end up costing you time and sanity. So you've got to have the connection, love it, hello, and that ability to be able to create your purpose as you go that matches the purposes of the people that you want to work with. And that's, yeah, purpose is not something you find.

It's something that you actively create and you commit to creating that purpose daily. Right. Wow.

Milly, you've just shared so much valuable information. And today we are in awe of you. I'm always in awe of you because I just think how you show up is just incredible, particularly in the face of fear and vulnerability and just going, OK, you talk about running to the chaos, just facing it front on.

And you're a real inspiration for all of us, for all thought leaders, but especially women. You've been carrying the load, moving places, leading corporate, so much change. You're a real example of resourcefulness, being able to make it happen.

And yeah, I can't wait to see what you do next. Just remember us all when you're famous. Jane, you're amazing.

And the community that you've created is amazing. And together we are who we are. And our lives are all the more richer for the fact that you've brought us all together.

So thank you. Thank you for serving us, Jane, because it helps us serve others. The idea.

Thanks, Melanie. Thank you. Bye.