Episode 76- Mindful Leadership: Why Self-Awareness Is the Foundation of Great Leadership
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Most leadership training doesn't fail because the ideas are wrong. It fails because it never gets past the surface.
A team gets sent to a one-day workshop. Everyone nods along. Nothing changes. Six months later, the same problems resurface, and the organisation books another workshop.
Maya Nova, a mindful leadership coach, speaker and facilitator who has spent 15 years building her practice, sees this pattern constantly. Her clients, including TVNZ, ANZ, Fisher & Paykel, PwC, Auckland Council and the University of Auckland, often come to her thinking they need a quick fix. What they actually need, she says, is something much deeper: self-awareness.
This article unpacks what mindful leadership actually means, why so many leadership initiatives fail to create lasting change, and how Maya has learned to bring a concept as personal as mindfulness into boardrooms full of sceptical executives.
Who Is Maya Nova?
Maya Nova is a speaker, coach and mindful leadership consultant with more than a decade of experience helping busy professionals and organisations build clarity, emotional agility and mental fitness. She has practised mindfulness and meditation for 20 years, including two years ordained as a Buddhist nun, an experience that unexpectedly launched her teaching career when she was first asked to lead others in the practice.
Her work today sits at the intersection of two things that don't always seem to belong together: mindfulness and corporate leadership. She runs mindful leadership programs, coaches individual leaders, facilitates senior team offsites, and speaks on the connection between self-awareness and effective leadership. Her client list spans government departments, law firms, councils and large corporates, organisations not typically associated with meditation retreats.
She is currently writing a book on self-awareness in leadership, describing it as work she has "put on a back burner" for years and is now committing to fully.
What Is Mindful Leadership?
Mindful leadership is the practice of leading with self-awareness, using metacognition and present-moment attention to understand your own reactions, biases and impact before trying to influence others.
As Maya puts it, "there's no leadership without self-awareness, really. I feel that all leadership begins with self." In her view, the ability to observe your own thinking in real time isn't a soft add-on to leadership skill, it's the prerequisite for it.
This distinguishes mindful leadership from general corporate mindfulness programs, which often focus narrowly on stress reduction. Mindful leadership uses mindfulness as the entry point, but the destination is behavioural change in how someone leads: how they build trust, handle uncertainty, and create the conditions for others to do good work.
Why Self-Awareness Comes Before Everything Else
Maya's reasoning is straightforward: you can't develop emotional intelligence, empathy or sound judgement in a role if you don't first understand your own internal state. Self-awareness is what allows a leader to notice a defensive reaction, a snap judgement, or a habitual pattern, and choose a different response.
She connects this directly to metacognition, the ability to observe your own thinking. Without it, she argues, there's no reliable path to developing the "essential leadership attributes" she sees underpinning good leadership: connection, kindness, the ability to be present with other people, and a genuine orientation toward service.
How to Introduce Mindfulness to a Sceptical Corporate Audience
Mindfulness carries baggage in a corporate setting. Say the word to a room of executives and some will assume it's a spiritual retreat exercise that has no place in a P&L conversation.
Maya has spent years learning how to get past that resistance, not by avoiding the substance of mindfulness, but by changing how she frames it.
Leading With Credibility, Not Spirituality
Her approach starts with research and credibility rather than language about spirituality. She reads widely, references research, and builds a case for why mindfulness matters before she ever asks a group to try it. Her framing connects mindfulness to emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and the tangible cost of leadership without either.
"I use the word mindfulness sparingly," she explains, "because we can alienate people" who don't identify with that kind of language. Instead, she leans on something she believes is universal regardless of how people label it: a shared human experience built around connection, kindness and the capacity to be present with others.
This matters for anyone trying to introduce a wellbeing or mindfulness-adjacent initiative into a sceptical workplace. The lesson isn't to hide what the work is. It's to lead with the practical case and the research, and let people arrive at the deeper layer on their own terms.
Giving People an Experience, Not Just Content
Maya's most consistent finding, after years of running programs, is that people don't remember the content. They remember the experience.
She describes sessions where a "grumpy, sceptical CFO" walks in resistant, and by the third session, is meditating alongside everyone else. Her explanation: "once you understand why, you'll jump on that train."
Even though she prides herself on being research-backed and able to quote sources at length, she has found that a simple breathing exercise often has more impact than any amount of content. It gives people a felt, visceral shift, from a stressed, contracted state to one that's present and open, that no slide deck can replicate.
Her broader point applies well beyond mindfulness training: content without behavioural change isn't enough. If a program only adds more information to someone's to-do list, it hasn't actually shifted anything.
The Real Problem Behind Most Leadership Requests
When organisations first approach Maya, they typically describe a specific, surface-level problem. Almost without exception, she finds the real issue sits much deeper.
Why Trust Is Usually the Root Issue
Reflecting on two major leadership programs she's run, Maya notes that both eventually traced back to the same root cause: an absence of trust. The first was built around the idea of "leading above the line", addressing dysfunction in how teams operated. The second went further, working directly on rebuilding trust once it became clear that was the real blocker.
Her reasoning: trust is the foundation of every relationship, whether professional or personal. Once a team recognises that trust is missing, the deeper work becomes possible, but it isn't a checkbox exercise. It requires what she calls "honest, courageous, deep work."
This mirrors what other leadership specialists in this space have found. Why psychological safety is the real driver of good team decisions explores the same trust-first pattern from a decision-making angle.
Her own approach favours collaboration over positioning herself as the outside expert with all the answers. Rather than "I'm the expert, I know," she works from a stance of "how can I help? Let me understand what you need", facilitating the process rather than dictating a fix.
Why Quick Workshops Don't Create Lasting Change
This is where Maya draws a hard line with prospective clients: she won't promise results from a one-off session.
She's happy to speak at a conference or run a webinar, she describes that as a valuable, inspirational "little kickstarter." But she's clear that a single session, however good, doesn't deliver behavioural change. That only happens when people commit to a sustained process, six, twelve months or longer, and follow through on that commitment.
This is a useful diagnostic for any organisation evaluating a leadership or culture initiative: if the plan is a single workshop with no follow-through, it's reasonable to expect the same problems to resurface within months.
Mindful Leadership in a Post-COVID Workplace
Maya has noticed a shift in how organisations think about leadership development since the pandemic. Meaning and purpose at work have become far more central to what keeps people engaged and motivated, citing research from McKinsey and PwC as evidence of this shift. McKinsey's own research on workplace purpose backs this up, finding that most employees now define a significant part of their sense of purpose through their work. People, in Maya's words, "are no longer prepared to abandon themselves and their wellbeing in the service of the corporate machine."
This aligns with a broader, independently documented shift toward workplace mindfulness. The Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley has spent years researching and supporting exactly this kind of leadership-and-wellbeing overlap.
Capability Budgets vs. Wellness Budgets
One practical outcome of this shift is that Maya's work often sits across two different organisational budgets at once: capability development and employee wellness. Some engagements are framed as leadership capability building; others are funded through wellness or wellbeing programs. Often, it's both at once.
She sees this as a meaningful signal. Organisations that understand the connection between wellbeing and leadership capability, rather than treating them as separate line items, are, in her view, the ones best positioned to retain talent and avoid the cycle of restructuring and turnover that comes from treating people purely as a "fix-it" problem.
Building a Mindful Leadership Practice: Lessons From Maya's Journey
Maya's own path into this work offers a second layer of insight, particularly for consultants, coaches and practitioners building a similar kind of practice.
Niching Down and Being Patient
Her practice didn't start with a business plan. It began with a personal need to develop herself, which led into years of mindfulness practice and eventually two years as an ordained Buddhist nun. When she left that community, she had no clear next step, so she started experimenting, offering some of her early coaching for free simply to build experience.
She describes the growth of her practice as "a very, very slow, organic process." If she could go back, she says she wouldn't change the substance of what she did, only wishes it could have moved faster. But she's also clear that the slow pace came from a deliberate choice: rather than spreading herself thin trying to please everyone and chase every opportunity, she narrowed in on what she genuinely knew and believed in, a pattern also explored in how cohort coaching supports deeper leadership development. That focus, she says, is what let her feel she was operating "in my integrity."
Using LinkedIn to Build Credibility
A turning point for Maya was investing in coaching and business education through the Thought Leaders Business School, even at a point when she didn't have the money to spare. That experience taught her how to translate what she already knew into something clients could recognise and buy.
LinkedIn became central to that translation. Her advice for anyone building a practice: show up consistently, add real value, generate conversations that provoke thought, and be willing to share your actual point of view rather than generic content. During COVID, she started running free webinars, sharing what she genuinely cared about, without knowing who was watching, and one of those sessions led to a $90,000 program engagement she wasn't even aware was being observed at the time.
Her closing point is a direct rebuttal to the idea that authenticity and profitability are in tension: "you can be authentic. You can be yourself. You can do this work in integrity and you can make money doing it."
If building a genuine, expertise-led practice like Maya's is something you're working through yourself, how Rita Cincotta built a deliberate leadership consulting practice is a natural next read.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is mindful leadership?
Mindful leadership is an approach to leading that starts with self-awareness, using present-moment attention and metacognition to understand your own reactions and impact before trying to influence or lead others.
How is mindful leadership different from general mindfulness training?
General mindfulness training often focuses on stress reduction for individuals. Mindful leadership uses mindfulness as a starting point but is specifically aimed at improving how someone leads, building trust, self-awareness and emotional intelligence in a leadership context.
Why do leadership workshops often fail to create lasting change?
A single workshop can inspire or educate, but according to Maya Nova, real behavioural change requires sustained commitment over months, not a one-off session. Without ongoing work, teams tend to revert to old patterns.
How can HR teams introduce mindfulness to sceptical executives?
Lead with credibility and research rather than spiritual framing, connect mindfulness explicitly to business outcomes like emotional intelligence and leadership effectiveness, and give people a direct, felt experience, such as a short breathing exercise, rather than relying only on content.
What's the connection between self-awareness and trust in teams?
Self-awareness allows leaders to recognise their own reactions and patterns, which is often the starting point for addressing the deeper issue behind most team dysfunction: a lack of trust. Building trust requires honest, sustained work rather than quick fixes.
Conclusion
Mindful leadership isn't about bringing meditation cushions into the boardroom. It's about recognising that leadership starts with self-awareness, and that most of the problems organisations bring to consultants are symptoms of something deeper, usually a lack of trust.
Maya Nova's approach shows that mindfulness and corporate credibility aren't in conflict. The two can coexist when the work is grounded in research, delivered through real experience rather than just content, and backed by genuine commitment to the process rather than a search for a quick fix.
Work With Jane Anderson
Curious how mindful leadership principles could apply to your own team or practice? Explore more conversations with leadership experts on The Jane Anderson Show podcast, or learn how Jane Anderson helps consultants and coaches build practices grounded in genuine expertise through Women With Influence.
Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:
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Jane Anderson opens the podcast, welcoming listeners to "The Jane Anderson Show," designed for experts aiming to enhance their impact, influence, and income in business and career. She emphasizes the importance of personal connection in business dealings. Jane shares insights from a recent content creation boot camp she conducted, highlighting the value of generating intellectual property (IP) and the effective use of ChatGPT for content creation. She discusses how ChatGPT can aid in idea articulation and research but stresses the need for authentic content creation. Jane also mentions the potential impact of ChatGPT on content saturation and the validation of pre- and post-2022 books. She invites listeners to engage with her and shares details about her upcoming content creation boot camp. Jane then introduces the podcast's guest, Maya Nova, a mindful leadership expert.
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Maya Nova expresses her gratitude for being on the show, acknowledging Jane's impact on her leadership journey. They discuss recent events, including Maya's trip to Bali and the challenges faced by clients affected by floods. Maya reflects on the complexities of running her own practice and the importance of self-awareness and authenticity in leadership. She describes her practice's focus on mindful leadership, emphasizing the connection between self-awareness and effective leadership. Maya highlights the necessity for deep, authentic work to build trust and address underlying issues in leadership dynamics. She shares her approach of collaborative facilitation and emphasizes the importance of commitment to the transformational process for sustainable change. Jane and Maya discuss the challenge of balancing clients' expectations for quick solutions with the need for long-term commitment to achieve meaningful change.
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The conversation shifts to Maija's expertise in mindful leadership, a concept that intersects mindfulness with corporate leadership. Jane praises Maija's ability to integrate mindfulness into the corporate context, making it accessible and relevant. Maija discusses her approach to bringing mindfulness into corporate environments, emphasizing credibility, storytelling, and connecting the dots between mindfulness, emotional intelligence, and effective leadership. She explains how she frames mindfulness in a practical, relatable way for her corporate clients, focusing on the shared human experience and essential leadership attributes.
Maija emphasizes the importance of service in leadership and expertise, highlighting her commitment to creating transformative experiences for her clients rather than merely imparting knowledge. She reflects on the need for alignment with clients' worlds and the importance of offering tangible experiences of mindfulness, such as breathing exercises, to facilitate behavioural change. Jane acknowledges the dual role Maija plays in addressing both capability and wellness budgets within organizations, particularly in the post-COVID era where meaning and purpose are increasingly valued in the workplace.
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The discussion transitions to Maija's personal and professional growth over the years. Maija shares insights from her 15-year journey of evolving her practice, emphasizing the importance of continuous learning, growth, and authenticity. She reflects on the significance of International Women's Day, expressing gratitude for the opportunities women now have to pursue their gifts and talents unapologetically. Maija highlights the ripple effect of women empowering themselves, recognizing that their actions pave the way for future generations of women. Jane shares her own experiences and echoes Maija's sentiments about the transformative power of women standing up for themselves and each other.
The conversation concludes with reflections on the generational shifts in attitudes towards entrepreneurship and female empowerment, underscoring the importance of representation and storytelling in inspiring future leaders. Both Maija and Jane emphasize the need for systemic change and collective action to create a more inclusive and equitable world for women in business and beyond.
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Jane shares her childhood experience of seeking books by successful businesswomen, highlighting the scarcity of such resources compared to those featuring male entrepreneurs. Maija acknowledges the importance of representation and storytelling in inspiring future generations, recognizing the impact of her work on teenagers seeking guidance. They discuss the generational shift towards audacious and visionary leadership, emphasizing the need for individuals to recognize their potential impact regardless of their sphere of influence. Maija reflects on her journey of self-discovery and the organic growth of her practice, underscoring the importance of patience, authenticity, and integrity in building a successful career.
Maija offers advice to individuals navigating the challenges of building their practice, emphasizing the value of continuous learning, leveraging online platforms like LinkedIn, and authentically sharing one's passion and expertise. She encourages practitioners to focus on adding value, maintaining consistency, and embracing authenticity in their professional endeavors. Jane praises Maija's resilience and commitment to personal growth, highlighting the importance of surrounding oneself with supportive communities and mentors. They express excitement about Maija's forthcoming book on self-awareness and leadership, underscoring the significance of going deeper into one's expertise and making a positive impact.
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Jane expresses gratitude for Maija's insights and praises her generosity and authenticity as a mentor and leader. Maija shares her appreciation for Jane's support and highlights her success as an inspiration to others. They discuss how listeners can connect with Maija through LinkedIn and her website, where resources and information about her work are available. Maija welcomes further engagement and conversation, encouraging listeners to reach out to her directly. Jane concludes the interview with excitement for Maija's future endeavors, expressing anticipation for her upcoming book and continued success in her practice. They express mutual appreciation and look forward to future collaborations and conversations.
Full Show Transcript:
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Hi there, my name's Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.
So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. Hi there and welcome to The Jane Anderson Show. I am so thrilled that you are here and to be able to join us for today's very special podcast.
I have an exciting guest for us today. But before we kick off, I thought I'd share a little bit about what I'm noticing at the moment and as I often do. So things we're seeing at the moment, I've just come off the back of running content creation boot camp, the one that we ran recently at Kingscliff.
I ran it in last month and had a fantastic few days. We had well and truly over 50, each person did 50 pieces of IP and we had 10 women in the room. So each of those are quite a bit of money.
So I generally work out that they're worth about $10,000 each and that adds up to about $50 million in revenue for practices. So super exciting, super hard work, but the format went super well. We did some transcribing.
We used ChatGPT, which is what I want to share next is, oh my God, how amazing is ChatGPT? Are you using it? How extraordinary is it?
I've had so many people who have said to me, oh my God, should I be worried about this? And at first I thought, I don't know, I think I'll just maybe hope it might go away, but it's not. But no, we had a really good discussion about it.
When we're at the content creation boot camp and I've been doing lots of pottering and having a look around and we talked about the power of it to really sometimes unlock an idea, something that you're really trying to articulate, something like it might be to be able to get a metaphor or to find the research. So I don't think ChatGPT is really going to do the thinking for you as a thought leader or an expert in your field. But what I think it does highlight is a few things.
If you follow Gert Malik, I had a great conversation with Gert Malik yesterday, who is the founder of SEO Leverage, who I really enjoy listening to. He's an expert in SEO. And we were talking about how ChatGPT will create a big influx of content on the internet, for sure.
So what it will mean is what are the validation points or the context that's online for you as an expert? Do you have a YouTube channel? Video, I think will become more important than ever because it's congruent and authentic and what is real in terms of what you're saying, not just outsourcing to ChatGPT.
We also think it'll be interesting about what that means for books written prior to 2022. So if you've written books before 2022, that will be interesting because our thinking use is that online, Google will validate those books more than say books written after 2023. Not saying you don't want to write a book, but you're going to have to think about how you leverage that thinking so that it is congruent with who you are as an expert and a thought leader.
So lots of good conversation around not only how to use it, but the impacts of it for building expertise and building a thought leadership practice and an expert's practice. So I'd be keen to hear what you think. Shoot me a line, drop me a note, even reach out to me in LinkedIn.
I'd be keen to hear your thoughts. But what else is coming up with another content creation boot camp coming up in July? It'll probably be the last one that I do is my thinking.
I'm getting quite busy with some of the things I'm doing. So and we do content club within our Women with Influence community. So if you're thinking about doing that, make sure you jump on the website and have a look.
It's a three day boot camp and you'll walk away with 50 pieces of IP, 50 pieces of thought leadership that can be leveraged to grow your practice. So, however, in terms of today, I've got a very special guest today. This guest that I want to share with you today, I met her a number of years ago.
We both met back in Thought Leaders Business School and I was mentoring, I was our guest's mentor for some time. And she just really blew me away with her presence, her expertise around mindfulness and how she uses it to help people really be able to step into the best version of themselves as a leader. She has this incredible grace about her and to be around her energy and how she delivers is truly quite extraordinary.
So I am absolutely thrilled that she agreed to be on the show today. So let me introduce you to her. Her name is Maya Nova.
She is a speaker, coach and mindful leadership expert with over a decade of experience working with people and organisations to help them to develop their human potential and increase their leadership impact by harnessing the power of self-awareness. She says that we can make the most of ourselves, our work and people and therefore thrive in times of great uncertainty. Maya is passionate about living our lives as if they matter, mindfully, one day at a time.
Her clients include TVNZ, ANZ, Fisher & Paykel, Lotto New Zealand, PwC, IAG, Cairns, Auckland Council and the University of Auckland, among many others. I hope you enjoy this interview with Maya.
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Hi, Maya.
Thank you so much for joining us. I am beyond thrilled that you are here and that we not only get to reconnect and catch up, but hear about your practice and that you so generously have agreed to share your time today. I'm so excited to talk to you.
[Speaker 1] (5:58 - 6:21)
Well, look, privilege is all mine. As you know, I feel not only that I'm a great fan of your work, but you really have made a massive impact on my leadership journey. And for those of you who are listening, that's one of the reasons why I'm here, because Jane coached me at a very critical time.
And so I'm forever in awe with you, really. So the privilege and the joy is all mine.
[Speaker 2] (6:22 - 6:55)
It's my pleasure. You're easy to coach. So because you're just so committed, you're just so committed to making the contribution that you have to make with your clients and the work that you do.
So it's interesting. I'm really keen to hear where we go today, because it's been a little while since we spoke and you've just come back from Bali. So you've been over there and come back to it because you're based in New Zealand.
Yeah. And so a lot is going on, the floods. You've had a lot of clients even affected by floods and you're trying to help them through all that.
So there's a lot of things going on.
[Speaker 1] (6:55 - 8:08)
Yeah, there is. And I think that's one of the things of running one's own practice. Right.
And that was something that has initially really attracted me to the style of work that we do, this idea of running a business versus running a practice. And when you're running a practice, you are the practice. I mean, you're the human being, a whole human being that's doing this.
Right. And you work with other whole human beings. And so it's complex.
And for me, part of what I do, a big part is really as much as possible walking the talk on this. And so the time I had in Bali was a bit of sabbatical, but also really taking the time to reconnect with myself and with my practice and with the clarity about where I'm going next and writing the book, which is going to be coming up hopefully by the end of this year. But then coming back and coming back to working with my clients who most of them haven't been affected by flooding.
And it's difficult because some of the work that we do, you know, I often reflect on the distinction between urgent versus important. And so it often doesn't feel urgent. It's not like a necessity and can sometimes take the back seat.
So it's just kind of been a little bit, you know, just getting the wheels to begin to move. But it's always exciting.
[Speaker 2] (8:09 - 8:29)
Yes. That's one thing I will say. It's a period of change, you know, there's always a challenge and an opportunity.
Indeed. Maya, are you happy to share, perhaps even we've done the intro, but a little bit about your practice? Just how does it work?
What's your specific area of expertise and who are the type of people you work with?
[Speaker 1] (8:29 - 10:12)
Yes. So the practice has evolved over the years. But where I now play is in the space of mindful leadership.
And that's a very interesting intersection. Like, how do you put those two things together? So it's interesting because there's no leadership without self-awareness, really.
I feel that all leadership begins with self. And so the reason why I love working in the leadership space is because it really requires people to do deep, authentic work if they want to have a positive impact on others, if they want to be able to evolve and grow in times of great change and uncertainty and lead the change in positive ways. It's one of the most audacious things that I feel any human being can endeavor to do.
And to do it well is not easy. And so for me to be able to support both individual teams. And last year, I had a couple of projects working with senior leadership teams and really building the foundation of that effective work based on trust and contribution and self-awareness and empathy and things like that.
So primarily, I work with leaders. And I wish that this was offered to emerging leaders more, but it seems to me and it's quite an interesting paradox that it's often you're not introduced to some of these foundational concepts later on in the game of leadership, which actually doesn't make sense. But it's also there's a readiness there and a willingness.
So basically, that's what I do. I work with teams. I coach individual leaders and support them on their journeys.
And I also speak in this space and write.
[Speaker 2] (10:12 - 10:29)
And Maya, when people engage you, what are the typical problems or challenges that they often say they're having or the organization would say that they're having? When they approach you, they're saying, you know, this is what's going on. And how have they connected that to mindful leadership?
How does that sort of work?
[Speaker 1] (10:30 - 13:00)
It's one of those classic things where people come to you thinking they have a certain problem, but actually the problem goes much, much deeper than what they initially realized. Right. I mean, if I reflect from experience, for example, the two major leadership programs that I ran, the first one was based on this concept of leading above the line.
And I guess what was driving it behind the scenes was the fact that there's always some kind of dysfunction that happens. And I do believe that ultimately the second program that I ran was really on the absence of trust. And that's where you start to dig really deep, because if you recognize that trust is the most important thing of any relationship between two people or a bunch of people, whether that's to do with work or it's to do with any kind of relationship, trust is foundation of everything.
And when you recognize that the trust is not there and what are the impacts of the trust not being there. And if you look at building trust, that's not a box picking exercise. Yeah, that's right.
It's really honest, courageous, deep work. So falling back on some of the golden standard work in that space, but then also working really collaboratively. And that's like my favorite way to work.
Instead of me positioning myself, oh, I'm expert, I know, it's more like, how can I help? Let me understand what you need. Let's talk about it.
Let's facilitate the process around this and let's commit to this. So when I feel really most able to help is when people are willing to commit to a process. And as much as it's really wonderful and I enjoy being invited to a conference to speak or running a webinar, that's the sort of hopefully an inspirational educational piece.
Maybe it's a little Kickstarter, but it doesn't deliver behavioral change. So when people commit to six months, 12 months long programs and commit to the process, that's where some of the magic happens. And so in terms of your audience who are listening, in terms of models of how we might approach this, and that's something that I learned from you as well, is to really be audacious and say to people, I can't help you unless you commit to a process.
And, you know, prior to that point, being really generous in terms of really showing people why they should work with you. I'm very happy to run explorative conversations and share content and so on. But if they want to work with me, I will have to ask for commitment because you can't see change unless you commit to the process.
[Speaker 2] (13:00 - 14:38)
That's a really valuable insight because you're right, you know, sometimes they go, oh, we just need a quick one day workshop or we just need this quick thing, quick question, quick thing. And so they're used to immediate, quick results, but actually that's the reason why they're not getting the change because you're looking for short, quick things. And it's interesting, you talked about particularly your area of expertise around mindful leadership.
Like that's such an interesting space and that you talked about the intersection of those two things, because when some might think about mindfulness, they might think about, oh, OK, I think about spiritual retreats or I think about, and then to think about this in a corporate context and attach it or connect it with leadership. That's what I love most about your practice, Maija, is that you're taking something that might not seem like a corporate type concept, but you're bringing it into the context of leadership. How do you bring something like that that would typically perhaps be a public market type thing where an individual would probably pay for themselves?
How does corporate understand how to buy that? How have you been able to make that happen? Because you've worked with law firms, you've worked with councils and like you said, senior executives.
So it's not the $50 mindfulness session that's run at the local city hall, perhaps in the public market that might have that perception. You've been able to manoeuvre this into a way that corporate can understand how it works for them. How have you been able to do that?
That is amazing.
[Speaker 1] (14:38 - 16:19)
Thank you for recognising that, because I guess I am someone who likes to learn, do research. My passion is to understand how things come together. And so I think big piece around that is credibility.
Right. It's being able to tell a compelling story, I guess, about why in the modern landscape, globally, but also in the context of leadership and work, is really to understand the impact and of cost of not being that person. But I guess I enjoy and pride myself on really reading quite widely and being able to connect the dots in terms of what is the best golden practice across the spectrum, not just from the perspective of mindfulness, and then connect the dots back to why we need emotional intelligence, why we need the self-awareness, what is the cost of not being a self-aware leader?
And then understanding that you can't get there without mindfulness. How do you develop self-awareness without metacognition and the ability to observe yourself in real time? There's just no shortcuts there, right?
So it's being able to bring mindfulness into the context, I don't know any other way. I mean, it's quite endearing to me and I love it. Sometimes I would begin my program.
There would be maybe the grumpy, skeptical CFO and people are sitting there and by the third session, they are meditating because they understand why. Right. Once you understand why, you'll jump on that train.
[Speaker 2] (16:19 - 16:19)
Right.
[Speaker 1] (16:19 - 17:16)
And that is something that I'm really passionate. And it's so curious to me. It wasn't something that I necessarily intended to do at the beginning, but I work with smart, busy people.
So I think I'm also capable of translating some of these ideas in a way that makes sense to them. So it's being able to articulate it and put it into the context. And so again, we're speaking now about applying mindfulness in the context of leadership.
But thinking about your listeners, if you've ever had something that you are passionate about, but you think, oh, no, these two things can't work together, it's really to do with answering those questions like, why does this matter and how can it help? And then for me, all of this was just one large experiment, really. It's an interesting thing, right?
A lot of people stay in employment because they're seeking security.
[Speaker 2] (17:16 - 17:16)
Yes.
[Speaker 1] (17:17 - 17:55)
I feel like that I'm an unemployable person because I am too connected and too passionate about my work, I guess. And so then it's a question of, well, if you are unemployable, then you have to add some value. You have to offer something so that someone else will bring you in.
And it's being brave. It's being courageous, but also believing in oneself and developing oneself. I couldn't do what I'm doing if I hadn't invested in myself in huge ways and continued to do so.
And that's, again, the paradox, right? Because it can sometimes feel almost self-indulgent.
[Speaker 2] (17:56 - 18:26)
And sometimes if you've got a topic like this around mindfulness, the self-awareness sometimes sits in the spiritual space as well. And I sometimes see people that have public offering like that, and they'll say, oh, but if I go to corporate, you know, I'm selling my soul to the devil. I want to stay out here.
You haven't had that mindset. I've never heard you speak like that. I've never heard you say anything like that.
What is it that's the mindset that you find that is helpful? Is it around that they're still humans at the end of the day?
[Speaker 1] (18:26 - 21:45)
That's right. You see, I feel that sometimes when we use words like spiritual even mindfulness is the word that I use sparingly. We can alienate people because they assume that they're not that person.
Right. And for me, it reads very much. I fundamentally believe that we have the shared human experience and whether people realize or not, they are spiritual.
That's what I believe. Right. You may not identify with that, but we have certain ways of we could now go into a very deep philosophical conversation if you're not careful.
But it's quite obvious that we are not just a bunch of thoughts and this kind of capsule of physical form. There's something else going on here. You know, even if you look at the things that we value as human beings, connection, kindness, ability to help, to serve, to be present with one another, these are essential human attributes and they are essential leadership attributes.
Yes. So there's a connection there. And I really believe in service, both in terms of leadership, but also as an expert.
If we're not helping in some way, then what are we doing really? And so to me, that conversation, it's never really worried me. And I think that's an exercise in compassion and empathy is being able to frame something and not be so enamored in your own thing that other people can't actually resonate and benefit.
Because I do work with, I work with lawyers, I work with accountants, people who are typically wary of any kind of spiritual thing, potentially, it's being able then to look at the data, look at the research, be hands on, be practical, introduce them to concepts and ideas, make sense of it for them and then introduce them and give them little bites of what an experience of that actually feels like. It's like eating chocolate.
I could try and describe you what a chocolate tastes, right? But it's when you have that little muscle, you go, oh, I get it now. And it's so interesting to me, even though I pride myself on really backing myself with research and I read very widely, my bookshelves are stacked with books I can reference, I can quote things.
And at the end of the workshop, often, you know, when I run webinars or I get the feedback and I ask people, what did you get the most out of? It would be the breathing exercise. Ah, is that right?
Yeah, because they would have had a visceral experience of a shift from being in a stressed or contracted or distracted state to being present, being focused, being open, being aware. And to me, that's the foundation of everything. It's like kicking into gear.
And I guess for me, fundamentally, it's really important that I am in the right space and that I am hopefully modeling and emanating, not perfectly because that's not possible, but really holding that space primarily. And then the content comes in to support that. And I'm always interested in really creating, I guess, a transformative experience for people rather than giving them more to-do lists and more content.
Content is important, but content without impact and without behavioral change is just not enough.
[Speaker 2] (21:46 - 22:13)
If I think about what you're saying is back to what you said before, there's a big part of it is around if that's the thing they're taking away, how you got them there was through framing, positioning, context, research and translating and aligning it with their world so that it's relevant. And then you can pull in all those skills that you've had and then put it in their world. Exactly.
[Speaker 1] (22:14 - 22:49)
And so, for example, in leadership, it's a bit more complex than that. But, for example, if I'm invited to speak at a conference, it will be, for example, something like the idea of the possibility of thriving in uncertainty, right? Because everyone can relate to the times they're uncertain.
They generate stress, they generate anxiety. And then being able to speak to that thing in a way that they understand is relevant to them and offer solutions and give them a taste of an experience of what might it feel like to step into that space beyond the struggle.
[Speaker 2] (22:50 - 23:17)
And you must have seen, I'm guessing, coming out of COVID, the way that organizations have their budgets and how they're addressing, you know, they've got, we've come off the great resignation. We're going into really interesting times economically. So when they're working with you, like I'm imagining, yes, there's the capability budget that they're looking at, but there's also the wellness.
Like you're kind of sitting across two budgets with two organizations. Is that right?
[Speaker 1] (23:17 - 24:21)
Yes, I can sometimes step into both. But yes, it is both of them. And just to speak for a moment to this kind of post-COVID world that we live in.
We know from research, there's been a bunch of studies done, the McKinsey Report, the PWC, that meaning and purpose is becoming absolutely pivotal in terms of people being motivated at work, living fulfilled lives. People are no longer prepared to abandon themselves and their well-being in the service of the corporate machine. And so those who are on the edges of understanding this are the ones that will do really well.
And those that don't, I think, will continue to lose talent and continue to go through restructures and continue to just kind of, you know, to me, it's also there's a difference between just constantly being in fix-it mode versus having vision, being propelled by a common purpose and having a vision of something that we can all look towards and go, yeah, I want to be part of that, you know?
[Speaker 2] (24:21 - 25:04)
Yeah, you know, there's been so much reassessment and taking that time to go, why am I here? What am I doing this for? I only get to be here once, so might as well make the most of it.
So how do I get to make that happen? And does this actually fulfill me? Do I like this?
Do I not? Really designing and being conscious and that mindfulness about, well, hang on, is this really helping me achieve what I'm trying, what I've been put here for? Which comes back to then a practice, you know, we talk about for women with influence, it's about being able to have fun, that you're fulfilled by what you do.
You have that freedom to do the work you want to do. You've had your practice now for how many years?
[Speaker 1] (25:04 - 26:44)
I'm always terrible with questions like that, but it's probably coming on to 15 years in its evolutions and iterations. So the key is to be able to continue to evolve. And for me, it's so important that I'm able to be my best, most authentic self, that I am stimulated and motivated, that I am learning and growing.
And then I can be contagious with that passion and a sense of purpose because it is that abiding, a strong sense of purpose that continues to drive me forward. But I'm also just suddenly looking at the poster behind you and the two of us talking, and uncannily, it's International Women's Day today, right? And I really reflected today on the fact that we're potentially really the first generation of women that have really had this, on a larger scale, this ability to really unapologetically pursue our gifts and talents and strengths and have an impact and really reimagine how we exist in the world.
And I actually posted that on LinkedIn today. But I genuinely strongly feel that when we do this, we don't do it just for ourselves. We do it for all women.
We are really setting up new standards, new expectations and potentially even really changing this patriarchal approach to how we run our worlds and businesses and work. And I think it's really important work. And yes, we need to do it systemically and together.
But I really, really believe that when a woman stands up for herself and when a woman self-realizes, she does it for all women. Right.
[Speaker 2] (26:44 - 28:32)
You know, because I agree with you. I think this generation, I remember trying to find a book. I always wanted my own business since I was a kid.
And but I always wanted to be helping people. I didn't really know what it was. But I remember when I was about 13 or 14, I remember I really that's what I wanted to do.
And I couldn't find any books in the bookshops of any stories that were written by business women. Business Studies was my favorite subject at school. And I loved all the thinking behind it and reading about successful business people.
But they were all male ones on the bookshelves. And there was only one book. I've still got it somewhere.
I haven't got it here, but I know I've definitely got it. But it was how to get what you really want. And it was this really it was this woman.
And on the front cover was her driving. I think she was driving a Mercedes. And it wasn't really that it was really how has she been able to create that choice and freedom for her?
When you're at school and you're choosing subjects, when you're late in it, you're picking for subjects for 11 and 12 and what you want to do when you finish school. And today is you're right. I go, well, if you've got that expertise for those women, I go, there's someone I just always think with and with any book that any woman is writing.
I go, there's a teenager who's going, I've got this idea and what they're looking for is some kind of way how I can learn. And so the work we do is, yes, it's you're building a successful practice and you've got to be able to do that to be able to create your best work. But you're right, it's there's a generation coming and they're watching, they're absorbing and they're seeing things more than what even we are and the opportunities that we have today.
And they're going to look at what we've done and they go, oh, that's nothing compared to what we can do now.
[Speaker 1] (28:32 - 30:13)
I hope so. I certainly do. And it is exciting.
And leadership today needs to be audacious. It needs to be visionary. Yeah.
Right. Because we can't just move the same parts all over and try and get a different outcome. And so, again, you know, the kind of vertical development to really connect with a bigger sense of purpose, to have vision and to be able to bring the people on that journey, you know, and leadership is not a hierarchical position.
It's a position of impact and influence. And so sometimes it worries me that people don't have more self-esteem and that sometimes self-esteem is really confused with ambition or arrogance or things like that because every single person can have a positive impact. Yes.
And it's really important that we connect with that. We connect with that leadership potential. And it doesn't matter how big that that sphere of influence is, but we can all have a positive impact on our own field.
And so whatever it is that you're endeavouring to do, there's a way of really connecting with unique strengths and gifts and talents and being brave a little bit, you know, just a little bit of courage, because I think stepping out on your own, there's always a risk involved. And I guess that's something that I've been able to do. And I've been able to not be too worried when I don't get immediate results or when my bank account is not looking too good, because I have always backed myself and I've always invested, not in my present self alone, but in my future self.
[Speaker 2] (30:13 - 30:24)
But that's actually where I was going to go is tell us about what are some of the biggest challenges that you've had being able to get your practice going and to be able to build it to the stage that it's at now?
[Speaker 1] (30:25 - 33:16)
Yeah, I guess my story is quite unorthodox in a sense that I didn't really initially set to build a business and that some of it really came through the necessity of me wanting to do what I do and being able to get paid for it. And it was like, how does that work? You know, how can I do this?
So initially I was and this is like a little bit of interesting trivia about me. But so I started this whole journey through really wanting to and needing to develop myself. And I got big time into my mindfulness journey, into my Buddhist practice.
I was ordained for a few years as a Buddhist nun. And it was during that time that I got asked to teach. Right.
I probably would have never. I would have played too small. I would have gone, who am I to?
And which is probably what a lot of people do, right? Who am I to coach, to teach, to write a book? Because, of course, we're not perfect, but it's quite helpful when somebody just puts it on the table and says, OK, well, this is what you need to do.
And somehow in that process, I discovered my vocation. And then when I stepped out of that community, I was suddenly alone in the world. And it was like, gosh, where do I go from here?
Right. And so I really just kind of started to experiment, to upskill myself a little bit. I actually offered some of my first work for free.
You know, I was coaching people just to get the experience. And then opportunity came here and there. So it was a very, very slow, organic process.
I mean, if I could go back and speed it up a bit, you know, one of your questions when we were looking at this, what would you have done differently? Ultimately, nothing. But it could have been a bit fast-tracked, you know, I would wish for other people for that to not be such a slow process.
But then having said that, it was very organic and it just grew. And as it often is the case, when you are really passionate about an idea and committed to really add value, sometimes unforeseen opportunities come your way, you get exposed to certain things, you may do well there, another opportunity comes and so like that. But really something that became a very important part of my practice was to really, really feel into the zeitgeist and go, what is needed right now and how something of what I know about can help here.
And really the danger of not spreading yourself too thin in order to try and get the work and please people, that's the danger. And I think that's maybe why my practice was such a slow burn, because I actually, in fact, did the opposite. I really honed in because then I could feel really in my integrity.
I could feel that I really know something about this. And then learning, you know, adding into my toolkit, how can I communicate and facilitate the learning in this space? Then it becomes quite practical as well.
[Speaker 2] (33:17 - 33:44)
And so, you know, what you've been able to do then by the sound of it is narrowing in. So being patient, I'm hearing as well. And then if someone was listening to this, Maya, you know, they're at this stage in their practice and they're sort of trying to get through that growth or they're trying to be patient, like you said, struggling maybe with the banking accounts coming down, you're like, oh, I'm hanging in there.
-
What advice would you have for them if they were in the stage that you were at?
[Speaker 1] (33:45 - 35:25)
So for me, the turning point was doing the Thought Leaders Business School and getting the coaching. And I didn't have the money to do it, you see, that's the thing. But I recognised that I was stuck.
I knew what I knew. But I didn't know how to translate it. And so at a certain point, being able to leverage, like, for example, learning to leverage on LinkedIn was a game changer for me.
But to really work LinkedIn, you have to have something to add that's of value. You need to show up as an expert in your field. You need to be consistent.
You need to generate interesting conversations, add value, make people think, provoke that kind of curiosity. You know, the idea of busking out, for example, that I learned from the Thought Leaders, it was COVID that really reoriented me back online. So I started to run these free webinars and people would join.
I saw the $90,000 program of one of those. I didn't even know that people were sitting in the background. I was just talking about what I cared about.
Do you see what I mean? So it is like, how do you put yourself out there and just really share your passion, look for connection? I'm not a natural network.
I love being in front of people, but I'm an introvert. So for me, going to networking events doesn't work. But sharing ideas and talking to people and for some people, online space doesn't work.
For me, it has worked incredibly well. Right. And, you know, just really want to reemphasize that you can be authentic.
You can be yourself. You can do this work in integrity and you can make money doing it.
[Speaker 2] (35:25 - 35:47)
Yeah, you're a real testament to this, Maya. You know, I just adore watching you. I'm in awe of everything I see that you do.
If you're listening to this and thinking you want to follow Maya, we'll talk about that in a sec. But Maya, my big question for you now is, so what's next? What are you working on?
What's coming up for you?
[Speaker 1] (35:48 - 36:38)
So what I'm really excited about is going even deeper. And so I began this process when I was in Bali and I am writing a book about self-awareness and self-awareness in the context of leadership is probably the white paper that's going to come out worse. But then really, just really being unapologetic and going deep into this stuff, because I realized that as important as self-awareness is, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what it is.
And people think that they possess it to a much lesser degree than they actually do. So that's what's coming next. And then I'm hoping on the back of that, there'll be programs and speaking and so on.
So this is my year of focus and actually really trying to really make that happen, because it's been on a bag burner for quite some time. This is the year when it will happen.
[Speaker 2] (36:39 - 37:42)
Oh, fantastic. Well, we can't wait to see that. And I really look forward to reading your white paper.
My word this year is deep. I love it. Yeah, so I love and can really connect with what you're saying about that to really kind of quieten the rest out and just go right into exactly.
I love what you said before about the zeitgeist and how you really tapped into that as part of growing your practice. You brought the right people in around you, Myra and I, that was where we met back in Thought Leaders Business School. And you're right, it's about getting people around you who have done this before or who can help translate how all this works in your world.
And then now being able to quieten all that and go right into, well, here are the specific challenges that people are having. Here's the specific opportunities that are sitting right down there. And you have to remove a lot of things to keep going that deep.
So I really am in awe of everything you've done. And I'm always enjoy watching your journey. I try to like every post I put up on LinkedIn.
There's Myra, remember me?
[Speaker 1] (37:43 - 38:13)
I do, I do, I do. And yeah, and I appreciate you and obviously in all of the work that you're doing, you know. And to me, one of the things that I admire most about you and love about you, Jane, is that you're such a generous, you root for people in a really big way and you are kick-ass and super successful.
And to me, that's always so inspirational to see someone who is incredibly successful, but has remained a really good, kind, authentic human being. It's really inspiring.
[Speaker 2] (38:13 - 38:33)
Thank you, Myra. Coming from you, that's really touching. So thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. I'm so thrilled that we've been able to catch up. For those who have listened, Myra, where would you like, if people want to follow you or they want to, can they download any tools or resources, they go to your website or where would you like them to go?
[Speaker 1] (38:33 - 39:08)
So LinkedIn, you can just Google Myra Nova and you'll find me. There's not many people called that on LinkedIn, because I post quite regularly. There's quite a few resources.
I really try and get a dialogue going. That's often when I post where new stuff comes up. But also my website, mindbalance.co.nz is where people can go. You can download my last white paper there. And everything that I do is a constant work in progress to up to where we are now. Then I would say probably LinkedIn is the most current and the best way to engage with me.
[Speaker 2] (39:09 - 39:11)
Terrific. Well, I'll pop you the details. Sorry, go ahead.
[Speaker 1] (39:11 - 39:21)
And I just want to say I'm always happy to have a conversation. So if anyone feels inspired, then just click me an email, connect with me on LinkedIn. And I'm always happy to have a chat.
[Speaker 2] (39:22 - 39:48)
Thank you so much, Myra. So if you're listening, jump onto Myra's LinkedIn on her website, mindbalance.co.nz. I'll pop the links in the show notes as well. But Myra, it's been such a pleasure.
We can't wait to have you back. I look forward to hearing about the book and how that all comes about. I can't wait to read it.
I know your expertise is just exceptional. So, you know, be great to see that go out into the world as well. I can't wait to read it.
[Speaker 1] (39:49 - 40:01)
Thank you, Jane. And, you know, your boot camps and things like that, you may yet see me just to get the things moving a bit and not go too deep so that I'm not actually moving forward. Yeah, that's OK.
[Speaker 2] (40:01 - 40:03)
All right. Thank you so much.
[Speaker 1] (40:03 - 40:04)
Pleasure.
Most of the guests interviewed are current or alumni members of the Women With Influence community. Click here to find out more
