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Do you need to be based in Sydney or Melbourne to build a consulting practice that thrives? Ally Nitschke’s experience says no. She built hers from Adelaide, starting when her youngest child was only six weeks old.
In this episode of The Jane Anderson Show, I sat down with Ally, a leadership communication expert who works with organisations to build what she calls courageous leadership, courageous conversations and courageous teams. She is the founder of Made for More, a mother of four young boys and, in a past life, a professional ballet dancer.
We talked about how she got her practice off the ground, why her first year delivered so little, and what changed once she started unpacking her ideas, publishing on a regular rhythm, valuing her expertise and speaking on stages. This article draws out the practical lessons for any consultant, coach or advisor who wants to build a consulting practice on the strength of their own experience.
Building a Consulting Practice Outside the Big Capital Cities
Ally has a ready joke about Adelaide. Most people talk about six degrees of separation, she says, but in Adelaide it is really only two: everyone knows someone who knows someone who went to school with someone’s cousin.
That small-town feel shaped her early thinking. When she first stepped into thought leadership and started building her own practice, she wondered who would pay attention to her from “little old Adelaide”. Over the twelve months before we recorded, her mindset shifted. She now says Adelaide is bigger than she assumed and that there is opportunity all over the place.
Ally also pointed to what online delivery has changed. Speakers and consultants are no longer restricted by flight times and borders, and she has found it phenomenal to connect with people internationally that she would not normally have come across or reached out to.
I raised the stories many consultants tell themselves: that all the big clients are in Sydney and Melbourne, that people in their city won’t spend, that not-for-profits don’t buy, or that nobody has a budget. Ally’s practice has tested those assumptions. As I said to her, she has “blown all those myths out of the water” by going out and finding out for herself, and her clients include not-for-profits.
Starting a Practice Before It Feels Perfect
Ally was working in the federal government and had been there for a number of years, but she felt underutilised. After maternity leave and a return to full-time work, she found the juggle okay, but it was not what she wanted her life to look like. At the time, she says, she was thinking that “the nine to five is not designed for women in the workplace”.
The idea for Made for More took shape while she was holding her six-week-old baby and applying for a new role. Her husband told her it was not the end of her chapter. Ally realised her career in the public sector had not yet reached the peak she was hoping for and, with their family complete, it was time for “game on”.
Her background is varied. She worked in banking and finance in the private sector before the public sector, and across many different industries and sectors. She does not have an HR background, which she notes is common among thought leaders in the leadership and team space. Instead, everything she teaches is based on real-life experience of great teams, not-so-great teams, great leadership and not-so-great leadership.
Her biggest lesson about building a practice is a simple one. It may be a cliche, she admits, but “you just have to get started”.
Why the First Year Delivered So Little
Ally is refreshingly honest that clients did not simply appear. She naively assumed that putting up a logo and announcing she was in business would be enough. “No, they did not just magically fall in my lap,” she says.
For the first 12 months, she only dipped her toe in. She spent a lot of time on activities that produced no real results, whether that meant revenue, clients or movement in her thought leadership.
Finding the Right Room
The turning point came when she accidentally met me at a Professional Speakers Australia (PSA) event. She had connected on Instagram with a speaker we both follow, who was visiting Adelaide, and asked him to bring a copy of his book. She walked into the event with no idea what Professional Speakers Australia was. What she found was a room full of speakers and an association built for them. “Where have you been my whole life?” was her reaction.
That mattered because Ally has been told her whole life that she has too many ideas and should calm down and focus on one thing. At the PSA, people were telling her to develop those ideas. She remembers a line from my short talk that day about needing somewhere to capture your monkeys, and thinking that her own were out of control. Soon after, we started working together in Content Club.
Unpacking Your Ideas
The work began with simple questions. What are my ideas? What do I really think about this whole leadership thing? Ally points out the irony that it took courage to put those ideas out there, given that she talks about courage for a living.
Many of us are conditioned to worry about what everyone will think, and what if we are wrong. What Ally is still learning is that it does not matter, because “it’s my perspective and it’s my experience”. She finds it validating to hold that perspective and share it.
If you want another honest account of the courage it takes to put your name and ideas into the world, my conversation with Dr Michelle Gibbings covers building a practice over many years, including writing her first book while afraid.
How Content and a Regular Cadence Turned Into Enquiries
As Ally unpacked her ideas, she became clearer on what she does that is impactful to other people and what leaders need to elevate their leadership. She is most known for courageous conversations, which come naturally to her, and the next question was how to talk about them.
The shift in enquiries followed. Once she began developing her content and publishing weekly newsletters on LinkedIn, getting that cadence into effect, people started to say they had read an article she wrote or heard a podcast she was a guest on and wanted to know how they could work together.
I also congratulated Ally on the recent recognition of her Made for More podcast among the top five podcasts in Australia. In my view, the interviews work like research. They build a bank of knowledge and advance her thinking on courage, which is the focus she has narrowed into, whether she is working with courageous leaders, teams or women.
What Moved the Needle Most
When I asked Ally which single change made the biggest difference, her answer was all of it. She describes it as a snowball effect:
Content built confidence.
Unpacking her thoughts boosted her confidence, so she put herself out there a lot more.
Valuing her expertise.
Her internal monologue used to tell her she was brand new and wondered what she thought she was doing. The shift came from remembering she had been doing this for nearly 20 years and probably did know something. It is a mindset of getting over yourself, she says, because it is not about you. This is work Ally and I have done closely together in the Women With Influence community.
A regular cadence.
Ally now plans what goes out each month and what programs she is talking about, then puts it in her calendar. On Tuesdays she does one thing, and on Fridays another.
IP and collateral.
She has brochures and materials around the products and programs she sells, so everything fits together.
From Scattergun to Strategy
When Ally first started, her approach was scattergun with no real strategy. She jokes that she might have some strategy now. Today she asks what she is doing this quarter and what she wants to do across the whole of the following year, then works back to what needs to happen.
Previously, she was in a reactive space, or what I called order taking. Now her thinking is: here is what people need, here is what I am really good at, here is how we deliver it, and here is the collateral and IP behind it.
Valuing Your Expertise and Raising Your Prices
I observed that we are often too close to our own work. We have been doing it for 20 years and assume everyone knows it. I remembered one of our early conversations, about face-to-face events that ran for an hour each. An hour in the middle of the day means you cannot sell anything else that day, so a $200 session quietly becomes a $200 day.
Ally says her pricing shift was not overnight. It happened in tiny increments, and I was there for much of the journey, telling her she was still too cheap.
Let Client Feedback Guide Your Pricing
One of the biggest shifts for Ally was the feedback she received. After a recent program with leaders from across an organisation, one participant took her aside. She was probably the most experienced person in the group and had been a general manager in a number of companies. She told Ally it was the best leadership program she had ever done.
Ally had assumed she was only telling experienced leaders what they already knew. She notes that women in particular are conditioned to brush off compliments, and she has decided to start taking some of them at face value. The conclusion she reached: “It’s okay to charge a premium price because people are getting premium results, a premium experience, a premium network.”
She also gained confidence from seeing peers in her network doing remarkable things. She says some of the women in her network are signing multi-six and multi-million dollar deals, and she thought that if they could do it, she probably could too.
Package the Solution, Not the Day
Part of the change was letting go of clients who were only prepared to pay for lower-value pieces of work. Ally began asking how to package the work up differently. Instead of a one-day lunch and learn, how could she sell eight or ten sessions, or a longer program?
I added that this comes down to the problem you are solving. The question is not “how do I sell a $40,000 program?” It is what the client is actually trying to solve, and whether that can happen in a day. Probably not. It might take three, six or 12 months, and that is the point at which a $4,000 conversation can become a $40,000 one. I am not here to take people’s money for the sake of it. The price follows the problem.
If you are working through pricing and packaging in your own practice, this is the territory my Grow With Influence program is built around.
Speaking as a Way to Build Your Consulting Practice
Ally has wanted to be a speaker for a long time. In her early twenties, a coach told her she could not yet be a motivational speaker because she needed more experience and did not have any life stories. She remembers thinking she had done quite a bit in a short time.
She also spent her childhood on stage as a professional ballet dancer before what she calls “real work”. She thrives in that performance setting, and loves being able to influence a large audience over 45 minutes to an hour and trigger different thinking and action.
A keynote takes a lot of preparation, because you want to include as much value as possible without overwhelming people. The part Ally has noticed most is the flow-on effect afterwards. She might deliver a 45-minute keynote and soon hear from the sister’s cousin of the person she sat next to, who lives in Sydney and wants to talk. For her, speaking has also been valuable for brand positioning.
For another view on how speaking builds trust before a sales conversation, listen to my conversation with Inbal Rodnay.
Don’t Leave the Stage Without a Way to Stay in Touch
Ally says she kicks herself now for how many times she spoke, received great feedback and never saw those people again. Since realising the importance of building a list, she has put something in place to think about where she wants people to go and what she wants them to do after an event. That might be an opt-in, an SMS burst, or her daily dose of courage, which people love.
The aim is to connect with people in the audience so she can keep in touch through the weekly newsletter. Most people who enjoy a talk want to know more. They are curious, and their thinking has been elevated in some way, so the connection should continue.
I mentioned Keith Abraham’s idea that a speaking engagement is the start of a conversation. Speaking is not for everybody, but if you can work out your version of it, and your message works across multiple types of audiences, it makes sense to speak to plenty of people and build your list that way.
The Echo of Life: Put the Effort In Now
Ally often thinks about an Ed Mylett episode called The Echo of Life. As she describes it, the idea is that whatever effort you put in now, you will eventually see the benefits and reap the rewards. You just do not know when. It could be weeks, months or even years.
Running your own thought leadership practice has peaks and troughs, she says, and is a bit of a rollercoaster. What helps is “put your effort in now for your future results later”, even when you do not feel like it. In her own experience, the more she puts her foot down on the accelerator, the more the dial turns up three, six or 12 months later, and sometimes longer.
I added Keith Abraham’s line that activity solves inactivity. If nothing is happening, make something happen. Ally has done exactly that: she created events for her ideal clients, shared her IP, launched a podcast, wrote newsletters and is working on a book. She has also brought on support over the last 12 months, including virtual assistants, so that systems and follow-up are in place when she comes off stage and can focus on the creative work.
Advice for Consultants Who Are Just Starting Out
I asked Ally what she would tell someone who sees themselves in her story. She began with a caveat: she is not doing this all by herself.
Build a team around your gaps.
Ally is not interested in attention to detail, systemising, automation or data entry, which does not light her up. Others on her team love it. Find people who fill your gaps.
Be realistic about home support.
She has a husband who does a lot, and they are 50-50 in all things. She knows that is not the case for everyone, and she does not do all the things all the time.
Find a great coach.
Look for someone doing what you want to do at an exceptional level. Ally jumped in early on.
Build a community and an advisory panel.
Ally referred to Dunbar’s number, the proposal by anthropologist Robin Dunbar that people can maintain only a limited number of stable relationships. Her point was to choose carefully who sits on your panel of advisors and to get out of your own echo chamber. If people on your panel make you say “holy moly”, you have probably found the right people.
Keep a cadence.
Whether it is newsletters or publishing, stick to a rhythm and do the work.
Choose five things a day.
Women in particular, Ally says, tend to write “huge to-do lists that take longer to write than they do to execute”. Focus on what is important. Her hot tip: “email’s not one of them.” I agreed. The sooner you can outsource and delegate it, the better.
About Ally Nitschke
Ally Nitschke is a leadership communication expert based in Adelaide and the founder of Made for More. She works with leaders, teams and organisations on courageous leadership, courageous conversations and courageous teams. She hosts the Made for More podcast, and at the time of recording she was working on her book, Rise of the Courageous Leader. She is also a mother of four and a former professional ballet dancer.
Connect with Ally on LinkedIn | Made for More | Ally’s courageous conversations guide
Frequently Asked Questions
Can you build a consulting practice outside Sydney or Melbourne?
Yes. Ally Nitschke built hers from Adelaide. She initially wondered who would pay attention to her from there, but now says Adelaide is bigger than she assumed and that there is opportunity all over the place. Online delivery has also let her connect with people internationally.
How did Ally Nitschke get her first consulting clients?
Not by announcing her business and waiting. Her first 12 months produced little. Things changed after she met me at a Professional Speakers Australia event, started unpacking her ideas, and began publishing weekly LinkedIn newsletters and a podcast. People then contacted her after reading an article or hearing a podcast.
How often should consultants publish thought leadership content?
Ally did not name a universal frequency. She publishes a weekly newsletter on LinkedIn and plans her content and programs each month in her calendar, so there is a regular rhythm. Her point is that a steady cadence matters more than occasional bursts.
How do you know when to raise your consulting prices?
Ally let client feedback guide her. When a very experienced participant called her program the best leadership program she had ever done, Ally decided to take compliments at face value and charge a premium price for premium results. She raised prices in small steps and moved from single days to longer programs.
How does speaking help a consulting practice?
For Ally, speaking led to a flow-on effect after keynotes, with new introductions and conversations, and it helped her brand positioning. She adds that speakers should have a way to stay in touch, such as an opt-in, an SMS burst or a regular newsletter.
What advice does Ally give consultants who are just starting out?
Find a great coach, build a community and an advisory panel, keep a regular cadence, and build a team that covers the work you do not enjoy. She also recommends choosing five priorities a day rather than writing a huge to-do list.
Conclusion
Ally Nitschke’s story is not one of overnight success. Her practice grew in increments: a decision to start, a frustrating first year, a room full of speakers, a habit of unpacking and publishing her ideas, and a willingness to price her work in line with the results clients described.
For consultants who want to build a consulting practice, the pattern is worth borrowing. Get your ideas down and share them. Show up on a rhythm. Listen when clients tell you the value they received. Make sure every stage or published piece has a next step for the people who want more. And put the effort in now, knowing the echo may take some time to come back.
Work With Jane Anderson
If Ally’s story resonated with you, here are some ways to take the next step:
Women With Influence: Join a community of B2B women consultants and advisors building stronger expert practices.
1:1 Coaching with Grow With Influence: Work with me on your positioning, pricing and growth strategy.
The Influencer Indicator: Take a free scorecard to see where the gaps are in your thought leadership, marketing and business development.
Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:
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The transcript opens with Jane Anderson introducing her podcast, the "Jane Anderson Brand New Show," aimed at experts seeking to enhance their impact, influence, and income. She emphasizes the importance of personal connection in business and announces Ally Nitschke as the guest for the episode. Jane encourages listeners to stay updated on upcoming podcasts through her website. Ally Nitschke is introduced as a leadership communication expert based in Adelaide, specializing in fostering courageous leadership and empowering individuals to engage in bold conversations. Despite being from Adelaide, Ally has garnered international recognition for her work. She is described as a dynamic speaker, a mother of four, and a former professional dancer. Her forthcoming book on courageous leadership is highlighted. The dialogue transitions to Jane's interview with Ally, exploring her journey in building her practice amidst the challenges of being a mother and starting her business with a six-week-old baby.
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Ally Nitschke expresses gratitude for being on the podcast and shares insights into her journey. She describes Adelaide's business landscape and her initial doubts about gaining attention from a smaller city. However, she acknowledges the shift in mindset due to the increasing opportunities globally, especially with the shift to online platforms. Ally discusses her decision to start her practice when her youngest child was six weeks old, feeling unfulfilled in her previous role in the federal government. Despite lacking a background in HR management, she leverages her diverse professional experiences to offer practical insights into leadership. Ally reflects on the challenges of establishing her practice and the pivotal role of networking, particularly through the Professional Speakers Association (PSA), where she encountered Jane Anderson.
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Ally Nitschke discusses the initial struggles of her practice's first 12 months, characterized by experimentation and limited results. She credits her encounter with Jane Anderson at a PSA event as a turning point, sparking her interest in thought leadership and content development. Ally emphasizes the importance of capturing ideas and developing thought leadership, despite initial hesitations about putting her ideas out into the world. The conversation reflects on the collaborative aspect of their engagement through Content Club, highlighting the role of courage in sharing one's expertise and ideas.
The segment provides an overview of the podcast, introduces Ally Nitschke and her expertise, delves into her journey in building her practice, and explores the challenges and pivotal moments she experienced along the way. Through Ally's narrative, themes of resilience, adaptability, and the pursuit of passion amidst personal and professional challenges emerge, offering insights for listeners aspiring to build their own consulting practices.
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Ally Nitschke expresses gratitude for Jane Anderson's role in helping her unpack her ideas and gain confidence in sharing her perspective. She credits the process of developing content, particularly through regular newsletters and podcasts, for attracting clients interested in her expertise on courageous leadership and conversations. Ally's focus on courageous conversations emerges as a natural strength, contributing to her unique positioning in the consulting space. Her Made for More podcast, recognized as a top-five podcast in Australia, showcases interviews with individuals sharing stories of courage, adding to her body of knowledge in the field.
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Jane Anderson highlights the significance of capturing and developing ideas, publishing content, and valuing one's expertise. Ally reflects on the journey of boosting her confidence through content creation and adopting a strategic approach to her practice. The conversation emphasizes the importance of regular cadence in content creation, IP development, and strategic planning. Ally's mindset shift towards recognizing her value and the impact of her work on clients contributes to her ability to command premium prices for her services. Incremental adjustments in pricing and service offerings, guided by client feedback and strategic planning, have led to significant growth in her practice.
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Ally discusses the gradual mindset shifts she experienced, particularly in valuing her expertise and setting premium prices. Client feedback plays a crucial role in affirming the value of her services, empowering her to raise her prices and package offerings strategically. She emphasizes the importance of shifting from a reactive to a proactive approach, aligning service offerings with client needs and focusing on long-term solutions rather than short-term gains. Ally's journey underscores the importance of continuous learning, flexibility, and resilience in navigating the consulting landscape.
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The conversation shifts to Ally's client-centric approach, focusing on understanding and addressing client needs rather than solely selling services. Jane and Ally discuss the common myths and misconceptions surrounding pricing, client demographics, and market limitations. Ally challenges these assumptions through her experiences, highlighting the diversity of her client base, including not-for-profit organizations and clients from diverse geographical locations. The discussion emphasizes the importance of empathy, problem-solving, and value articulation in building successful consulting practices.
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Ally Nitschke shares her passion for public speaking, tracing it back to her childhood experiences as a professional ballet dancer. She highlights the impact of speaking engagements on her practice, emphasizing the opportunity to trigger new thinking and connect with diverse audiences. Ally discusses the importance of strategic follow-up after speaking events, recognizing the value of building and nurturing relationships with attendees. She acknowledges the role of speaking engagements in brand positioning and lead generation, emphasizing the need for systems and strategies to maximize the impact of such opportunities.
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Ally reflects on the importance of building email lists and implementing follow-up strategies to maintain audience engagement post-event. She shares her journey of learning the significance of list-building and regrets not prioritizing it earlier in her career. Ally emphasizes the value of creating systems and delegating tasks to support efficient lead management and follow-up processes. She offers advice to aspiring consultants, highlighting the importance of finding mentors, building communities, establishing cadences, and prioritizing tasks to drive success in the consulting industry.
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In conclusion, Ally offers key takeaways for individuals starting their consulting journey, emphasizing the importance of mentorship, community, cadence, and prioritization. She underscores the value of outsourcing tasks and surrounding oneself with a supportive team. Ally shares her preferred platform for connecting with others and offers additional resources for those interested in courageous conversations. Finally, she expresses gratitude for the opportunity to collaborate and learn within the community, acknowledging the role of mentorship and support in her own journey.
Full Show Transcript:
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[Speaker 2] (0:09 - 6:04)
Hi there, my name is Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.
I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. Hi there and welcome to the podcast, to the Jane Anderson Show. I'm absolutely thrilled that you are here and to be able to share our very special guest this week.
In this podcast, as you know, we always have a catch up and we talk to people, particularly more often than not, women who are building their own consulting practices and how you might be able to learn from them and some of the strategies that they've implemented, particularly after they've been in our community and some of the things that they have done. So if you would like to keep up to date on some of the podcasts that are coming out, make sure you jump onto the website, jane-anderson.com.au. You're welcome to join our community, you'll receive updates and tips and suggestions on some of the things that you can do to be able to particularly increase your influence, which is around really growing your consulting practice. And also find out about things like upcoming events and different things like that, particularly that are coming up in 2022.
So in the meantime, I'm going to introduce you to our incredible guest today. Our guest today is a woman called Ali Nitschke. Ali Nitschke is a leadership communication expert.
She's based in Adelaide and she really collaborates with organisations to help them really build what she calls courageous leadership and to help their employees and team members and anyone in the organisation have really courageous conversations and really get themselves into thinking boldly and courageous mindset. Her goal is to help people have the confidence to have those types of conversations. She spent over 15 years working as a leader and with leaders.
She's an absolute rock star speaker. She also happens to be a mother of four young boys. And she is extraordinary to watch.
The four young boys are all under eight. And how she does her practice and how she makes it all happen is truly extraordinary. She's a bit of a dance floor junkie as well.
She was actually a ballerina in a past life, a professional dancer. And so she really gets being on the stage and being able to perform and to engage audiences. Her clients really also get her to come and help and give them a bit of an Ali fix.
She's got a real incredible energy and essence around her that people just she just really naturally draws people to her. But what she does is she she has this incredible non-judgment about her. So she really gets that people struggle with saying, you know, that fear that leaders have around saying the wrong thing sometimes or leaders might be putting out fires and rather than trying to work on their, you know, really growing their people.
She works around the performance of culture and having some of those difficult conversations. She's currently working on her book. Her book will be coming out very soon, which is around the rise of the courageous leader.
And she helps them sort of get over that discomfort of having some of those difficult conversations. She shows incredible compassion, empathy and all those traits that you really want to be able to include sometimes in your own courageous conversations. What I love most about Ali is her ability to wing it.
She walks her talk. So she has that confidence. She has this incredible charm and courage.
And you're just in awe of how she makes everything look so effortless and easy and yet being able to really help you to know what to say. She's super practical. So make sure you keep an eye out for her on stages in 2022.
So please reach out to me. Send me a message on the website or Jane at jane-anderson.com.au. I would love to hear what you learn and to be able to help you keep in touch for any future ones. OK, enjoy the podcast.
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All right. Hi there, Ali, and welcome. Thank you so much for jumping on the podcast today.
I have been so excited about interviewing you because you are truly extraordinary with the business or practice you've created. And I've been dying to get under the bonnet with you. You know, we see these amazing...
You've been awarded top 10 podcasts, top five podcasts, top five in Australia. You know, you just seem to be putting all this amazing content out and you're doing some really incredible stuff. You're on stages, writing your blogs.
You've got a book coming. Wow. So I'm keen to thanks for your time today.
And I just really wanted to take the opportunity to jump on and go, oh, my God, how does she do this? So thank you. Ali, you've built an incredible practice and you're on this like extraordinary trajectory.
And are you happy to share with us a bit about your practice? Like because you're in Adelaide, yeah? Yes.
And so, you know, I think sometimes we think, oh, you can only do it if you're in a capital city that's like Melbourne and Sydney or... But yes, I'd love to know, how did you get into this? How did it all start?
How are you and what's been your big driver behind starting your practice?
[Speaker 1] (6:05 - 10:32)
I love it. Thank you so much for having me today as well, Jane. I'm so honoured to be on your podcast and amongst the amazing guests that you've already had.
I think I mentioned to you the other day, I've been binging all of your podcasts. So I'm feeling a bit special getting to be in that list as well. So, yes, I am in Adelaide.
And for anyone who's lived in Adelaide or does live in Adelaide, we've got a bit of a small town, I guess, mentality. One of the things we're most famous for is, you know, they talk about the six degrees of separation, whereas in Adelaide, it's really only two. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who went to school with someone's cousin.
So it's an interesting space when I first entered into this world of thought leadership and building my own practice, because I thought, oh, well, who's going to pay attention to me from little old Adelaide? Needless to say, over the last 12 months, my mindset has shifted somewhat. It turns out that Adelaide's actually quite big and there is opportunity all over the place.
And that's only becoming more and more prolific and prominent. You know, in the last 12 months, there's definitely a lot happening here. But also, I think one of the big things and I know, you know, the last 18 months, two years has been pretty and pretty interesting space for anyone who's a speaker, who's on stages, who's, you know, normally delivering something face to face is just it's a big world.
It's a big, big world. So no longer are we restricted by flight times and borders and all of those things. We've got this beautiful opportunity where we can jump online and connect with anyone around the world.
And I've certainly found that to be amazing, to be amazing, to be able to access people internationally that I wouldn't normally come across or even reach out to. So that's been pretty phenomenal. How did I get started?
Well, interestingly, you know that I've got four young children at home and I started my practice when my youngest was six weeks old. So six weeks still on my shoulder. And I was like, you know what?
I've got four. I've got four boys. I know, right?
Nuts. So they're at the moment, they're eight, six, four and three. So very, very young now.
But when my little guy, Eddie, was a teeny tiny baby, I was just thinking the nine to five is not designed for women in the workplace. I was working in the federal government and had been there for a number of years, but felt underutilized, had kind of, you know, by the time I went on mat leave and then went back off of mat leave and then worked full time. And I found the juggle OK, but it wasn't really what I wanted my life to look like.
And my business, Made for More, was essentially me standing there holding a six week old baby. And I was applying for a new role at the time. And I spoke to my husband, Alex, and he was like, you know what, babe?
It's not the end of your chapter. Like, you've still got some life left in you. And I'm like, oh, right.
And I realized right then that my career to date in the public sector probably hadn't quite reached the peak that I was hoping to achieve. And now that we'd finished having children, I was like, right, game on. So started my practice early on with my little guy.
And since then, it's been a huge, huge learning curve. So before I was in the public sector, I was working privately, banking and finance, have worked across many different industries and sectors along my time. But getting started, I think it's such a cliche, but you just have to get started.
You just have to go. You just have to go. And I think probably one of the biggest lessons for me in terms of building my practice.
So we work now with leaders, organizations, teams around mostly around courage. So courageous leadership, courageous women, courageous conversations, courageous teams, all of the courage pieces that come into what we would normally identify as soft skills, air quotes. But I didn't have a background as a HR manager, which I think predominantly a lot of thought leaders in the leadership space and team space have that background, whereas I didn't have that.
So all of my learning, all of my business is based on real life experience. And I have had a diverse, diverse range of great, great teams, not so great teams, great leadership, not so great leadership and drawing on all of that and going, how can we make leadership better for people around the world? And that's really where I'm up to these days.
[Speaker 2] (10:33 - 10:55)
Awesome. So tell us, you know, when you started your practice, so you started out and then what happened? Did you just start getting clients?
They just sort of heard about you or did you have to start contracting or like, how did you actually get all this off the ground and start to become as busy as you are today?
[Speaker 1] (10:56 - 13:48)
Yes, excellent question. No, they did not just magically fall in my lap. That would have been nice.
And naively, I kind of thought that's what would happen. You know, you whack a logo up and be like, hey, I'm doing this now. But no, they didn't come from nowhere.
So I think probably for the first 12 months of my business, so I've just turned three, the first 12 months, I really only dipped my toe in and kind of messed around with it a bit, spent a lot of time doing things that didn't result or didn't get really any results, whether it was revenue, whether it was clients, whether it was moving my thought leadership. It was really only actually when I accidentally met you at a PSA event. And I know we've talked about this before.
So someone that we both follow, Rowdy McLean, I know he's a close friend of yours. I'd connected with him on Instagram and saw that he was coming to Adelaide. And I was like, oh, great.
You know, I want to get one of your books. Can you bring it over? Having no idea really who he was or what this PSA, so Professional Speakers Association was and rocked in to anyone in Adelaide.
It was at the Aqaba, rocked in. And it was the national, wasn't it? The National Speaking Conference.
So there was all of these like amazing speakers. And it was like an actual association for speakers. And I was like, what is happening here?
Like, who are these people? And where have you been my whole life? So that was like super inspiring.
I was like, yes, these are the kind of people I need to be around, which was really the introduction into the whole idea of thought leadership. So my whole life, I've been told I have too many ideas. And just to like calm down and, you know, focus on one thing.
And my little mind's like, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. But what about if we do this? And what about this?
And what do I think about that? So falling into PSA, where they were like, yes, develop your ideas. I was home.
And you were one of the speakers, actually, on that day. It was a very, it was a very short one. But you're talking about content.
And one of the things that you said, you might not actually remember this, was during your speech, you said something along the lines of, oh, you need somewhere to capture your monkeys. And I was like, oh, my God, my monkeys are out of control. I need my monkeys.
Yeah. And that's probably when we started working together in Content Club, I think, is when it first started. So really developing that thought leadership and going, what are my ideas?
And what do I really think about this whole leadership thing? And it took a bit of courage, which is ironic since I talk about courage, to put those ideas out there. Because I think we're conditioned too much to go, what's everyone going to think?
And what if I'm wrong? And what if what I'm saying is not right? And what I'm learning, still learning, is that it doesn't matter because it's my perspective and it's my experience.
And it's my take on what I think needs to happen next and what I think is coming up. And it's really validating to have that perspective. So really, that's where it all started, with you.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
[Speaker 2] (13:49 - 13:51)
Oh, I'm just in awe on the sidelines.
[Speaker 1] (13:52 - 14:49)
Oh, don't be. It's very mutual. Very, very mutual.
So I think that's really where it started, is unpacking ideas. And I think when you start unpacking your ideas, you become more and more clear on what it is that, from my perspective, what it is that I do that's impactful to other people, what it is that leaders need, from my perspective, to be able to help elevate them. Some of the things that I'm most known for is around courageous conversation.
So that's something that comes quite naturally to me. And when we go, OK, well, what is that? And how do I talk about that?
Then when I started doing this content and developing my content, my ideas and publishing my weekly newsletters on LinkedIn and getting that cadence into effect is really when I sort of started to see that shift in people coming to me and being saying, oh, I read that article that you wrote or I heard that podcast that you were a guest on or that you held. I'm really interested. How do we work together?
And that's when I started to see a big shift.
[Speaker 2] (14:50 - 16:07)
Right. So the actual coming up with the ideas or being present with your ideas, having a way to capture them, getting them down somewhere and then developing them and not just developing, but then actually publishing and getting it out. So I know you've recently been awarded in the top five podcasts in Australia for your Made for More podcast.
And you interview a massive range of people and talk all about courage in their lives. And when they've been challenged in the most challenging times, they're finding their courage and how they've gone about that. What I love about what you're doing with this is almost like it's the research that you're doing and building this whole bank of knowledge and advancing the thinking around that whole courage message.
What I love about you said before, your practice is unique in that you really narrow in on that courage message and whether it's courageous leaders, courageous teams, courageous women, you do some work around the diversity space, particularly women who are building their courage and courageous communication, if I want to speak on stages. So you've really narrowed into that courage space and then gone, OK, I can work with a variety of people and you're starting to build your practice that way.
[Speaker 1] (16:07 - 16:08)
Yeah, yeah.
[Speaker 2] (16:09 - 17:06)
And what do you think have been the biggest things that you've implemented through the time over the that we've worked together? You've done an incredible amount of work, like you've published your podcast. You have you've been out selling programs to organizations like we're talking multiple five figure programs.
You've got conversations happening with heading into six and some involvement in some seven figure ones. But when starting out, like particularly in this last, say, two years, and what do you think has been the biggest thing out of all those things that you've done? List building, speaking on stages, knowing how to build the list from a stage of the collateral value propositions, how to how to sell all those things that you've implemented over the last 12 months.
What do you think? Or is it just or even a mindset around what have been the big things that have been the shifts for you, do you think?
[Speaker 1] (17:07 - 19:24)
All of those things. I think it's kind of works a little bit like a snowball effect. I think content certainly unpacking the content and my thoughts around my thoughts really boosted my confidence, which meant I put myself out there a lot more.
And then I think something that we've worked together quite closely on and within your women with influence community is just that value, like valuing yourself, valuing your expertise. For a long time there, my internal monologue or my itty bitty shitty committee was like, you know, you're brand new and what do you think you're doing? And it wasn't particularly helpful.
But then a big shift that I had was, well, you know, you've been doing this for nearly 20 years and actually you probably do know a little bit of something. So I think it's that mindset, getting over yourself essentially and just going, you know, it's not about you. And then another big one has been just the cadence.
So the regularly showing up, you know, the content that we do each month, you know, like our regular cadence around what's going out there, what are we talking about? What are the programs that we're talking about? And having that all in your calendar and going, okay, well, it's Tuesday.
This is what we do on Tuesdays. And now it's Friday. And here's what we do on a Friday.
That's been huge, particularly the IP, the collateral. So all of the brochures around the products and the programs that I sell and that we sell here and how that all fits in together. So all around, you know, all of the work that we've done together has just been huge.
And I think just pulling it all together, whereas when I first started, it was very much a scattergun approach. I didn't really have any strategy. In fact, I think I joke too often that I think I might have some strategy now.
That's been huge going, okay, well, what am I doing for this quarter? What am I doing for the whole of next year, 2022? We're just starting to plan and then going, right, what do I need to do to make that happen?
Whereas previously, it was very much in a reactive space and to use your own words, order taking. Whereas now I'm going, okay, well, here's what people need. Here's what I'm really good at.
Here's how we deliver it. And here's the collateral and the IP and the information that goes behind it as well.
[Speaker 2] (19:26 - 21:25)
I love that, Ellie, because, you know, a big part of it, sometimes we're often just too close to our own stuff, aren't we? Like we go, oh, but I do this all the time. We've been doing for 20 years.
Like, you know, yeah, I'll just jump in. I remember one of our very first conversations, which was around a series of webcasts, I think, which was, or no, it was not webcasts, it was face to face events. And they're all sort of an hour each.
And going, well, hold on, you know, if you do an hour of that, that's like the middle of the day. You can't sell anything else for the day. And now you're only doing like, if you're doing that for $200, you've just only sold a $200 day.
It's not a $200 an hour thing. And I know you've worked so hard on just getting those value propositions right and knowing your worth. One of the questions I had for you around, you know, and being in Brisbane, I always think Brisbane is a little bit like Adelaide in that, you know, I think the price points and around every market is a bit different and the clients and the industries are different.
But it's really easy to go, you know, all the big clients are in Sydney and Melbourne. And I remember one of our early conversations around people in Adelaide just don't spend, I don't think there are any clients for me in Adelaide. And, you know, regardless of where you live, I think Brisbane's a big one.
Perth, that can come up and even other cities, for those who are listening, you know, thinking I don't have any clients in my city or, you know, people in our city just don't spend any more than $5,000 a day. The market won't bear that. What are your thoughts on that for those, like if someone's sitting there thinking that and you think back to what you've uncovered as a result of, you know, having those conversations and going out and talking to people, what are you noticing and what's changed for you in your thinking around that, those sort of limits on price points and day rates?
[Speaker 1] (21:26 - 23:49)
I would love to say that it's been, you know, like an overnight shift. It has been teeny tiny incremental steps the entire way, and you've been there for the journey of maybe going, I've just increased my price a little bit. You're like, no, still too cheap, still too cheap.
I think one of the biggest shifts for me has actually been the feedback from my clients. So when, you know, I ran a program recently and there was an eclectic group of leaders from all over the organization, so different divisions of the organization, and there was one woman here in the group and she would have been probably how I would describe like the most experienced to, you know, done various roles, been a GM in multitude of companies. And she took me aside at the end of the program.
She was like, that is the best leadership program I've ever done. And I was like, oh, really? Like, I thought I was telling you to suck eggs.
She was like, no, absolutely not. And I think we're probably, and women as well, are conditioned to go, oh, you know, don't be silly, that's ridiculous. And I've decided to start taking some of those compliments at face value and recognizing that actually I'm having a huge impact, which is, you know, which is the whole aim of the game, right, to impact leaders.
But listening to that and taking that and receiving that feedback has really elevated me to go, yeah, it's okay to charge more. It's okay to charge a premium price because people are getting premium results, a premium experience, a premium network. And I think it has been, you know, I'm doing my hands up and down, like, you know, they're racing.
It has been one of those journeys where it's had to be incremental. But just listening to the friendly mirrors, as they say, of what people are going with. And yeah, having and recognizing other people within the community, within my network that are doing amazing stuff.
You know, we're not talking about $5,000 days. Some of the women are signing multi-six and multi-million dollar deals. You're like, oh, well, if they can do it, then I can probably do it as well.
And firing the clients that were only prepared to pay those lower dollar days or lower dollar pieces and going, how can we package it up so that it's, you know, a longer program or multiple programs or, you know, instead of it being a one day lunch and learn, how can we sell eight or 10 or whatever it happens to be? So yeah, stretching my thinking around how can we bundle it up differently.
[Speaker 2] (23:49 - 26:16)
Right. So thinking about not just, oh, I'm here to just sell this day thing is what's the actual problem that they've got? And well, can that be solved in a day?
Probably not. But, you know, I guess what I've noticed is that difference in thinking between, oh, they just need this thing versus, and that's when the lower price points kick in versus, well, hang on, what are you actually trying to solve here? And what's the journey that I need to articulate to take you on that?
And then being able to say, well, to do something like that is, well, that's going to take six months or that's going to take 12 months or that's going to take three months. And instead, you've got the shift from a $4,000 program to a $40,000 program. And it's not about trying to sell a $40,000 thing.
It's more, well, let's focus on what problem we're actually trying to solve here first, because we're not here to rip a client off and just sell $40,000 deals just for the sake of it and just take people's money. It's to be able to go, well, actually, you know, or to go, I want to sell this $40,000 thing. You go, well, okay, well, what's the problem with something?
Oh, I don't know. I just want to sell a $40,000 thing. Yeah.
So you've taken, you've put a lot of work and energy effort into, like, I love that you think so much about your customer. Every time we've talked, you've talked so deeply about the world that they're in and the problems that they're having or the experiences, but also the opportunities that are there for them. You know, and what else I love about what you're saying is that there's also some of these clients that you've worked with have also been not-for-profits.
So, you know, it's really easy to fall into, oh, well, not-for-profits don't spend or they, you know, or, you know, the assumptions that we have in our practices, people in Adelaide don't buy, not-for-profits don't buy, or no one's got budget, you know, all these stories that we tell ourselves, you've blown all those myths out of the water. Yeah. And by going out and just finding out.
You've also done a bit of speaking. Are you happy to share, like, because you did quite a big event. Adelaide, fortunately, hasn't had the lockdowns that some of the other cities have had.
Tell us about your speaking and what kind of, you know, what kind of impact that's had for your practice, particularly over the last couple of years.
[Speaker 1] (26:17 - 28:20)
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, I love speaking. In fact, way back when I was in my early leadership years, I was maybe 21, 22, I had a coach back then as part of the development that I was going through.
And I was like, you know what, I just want to be a motivational speaker. They probably said the wrong thing, actually. They were like, well, you will never be able to do that right now.
You need more experience. And, you know, you don't have any life stories. And I'm thinking, oh, I've done quite a bit in my short amount of time.
But I think one of the things I love about speaking so much is I spent my entire childhood on a stage. So I was a professional ballet dancer before I started real work, air quotes again. So I actually love and thrive in that performance, in that stage, the anticipation, the excitement, all of that.
So I love it. I'm definitely in my element. And being able now to have a huge impact on a large audience over an hour, 45 minutes, and just be able to trigger some different thinking, trigger some action to have for the people that are in that audience is remarkable to me.
And I think because what's the question? How much has it impacted? I think it's been impactful because, you know, it's a pretty big deal.
A lot of preparation goes into your keynote. You want to have like bang as much great things in there as you possibly can in a short amount of time without overwhelming people. But what I've noticed from a practice perspective is particularly some audiences is the flow on effect that happens afterwards.
You know, I'm there to do a 45-minute keynote. Next minute I was, you know, hearing from the person I was sitting next to at the events, sister's cousin who's in Sydney that wants to talk and, you know, had heard about it. And I think it's been great from a positioning perspective, which I didn't kind of, you know, got a little bit caught up in, you know, being on the stage.
From a positioning perspective, I love it. So there's always that, you know, the high of coming off the stage. But being able to share your message with as many audiences as possible.
And then, yeah, being a speaker, I think is great from a brand positioning.
[Speaker 2] (28:21 - 28:55)
Right. And, you know, even just building that list, like what was the size? There was a big audience that you spoke to in Adelaide.
And you came off stage. I remember you kind of, what am I supposed to do with all these people? Because you've got some good systems in place.
Are you happy to share a bit about like kind of that process? Because were you going to do lead gen going into that event? Or were you just thinking, I'll just go in and present and go, yay.
Do you want the real answer or the fake answer?
[Speaker 1] (28:56 - 29:57)
I mean, I've spoken a lot. And before I kind of realised the importance of building your list, I kick myself now for how many times I've spoken and had great feedback, but never ever to see these people again. So having a bit of a game, this little word strategy in there has been a real game changer.
And it's made me, I guess, think about where I want people to go and what I want them to do and take away after the event. So having something in place, whether it's an opt-in or an SMS burst or a, hey, you know, I do a daily dose of courage, which people love. But how do we get those people in the audience that are connecting on the list so that we can keep connecting with them through those weekly, that cadence of the weekly newsletters, just keep them engaged because they want to find out more.
Most people that you hear that you are like, yes, actually, that was amazing. They want to know more about it. They're curious about it.
We've elevated their thinking in some way. And I just think, you know, keep that connection going.
[Speaker 2] (29:57 - 31:13)
Yeah. Yeah. It's always, you know, Keith Abraham talks about speaking.
He always says, well, today's the start of a conversation. And, you know, I think Dave Stoughton would say, presenting, get them hot and horny. I want to know more.
Like, you've now got me, like my elevated thinking, you've got me, you know, thinking more. And now, now how do I get to learn more? Where do I access more?
And so being able to build that awareness, isn't it getting out in front of those audiences where they would never otherwise cross paths with perhaps some of these people. These people are hard to access. But you've been so, you know, and speaking's not for everybody.
But if you can work out your version of that and work out the audiences, you know, in your case, you know, here's your message and you can work across multiple, you know, groups of types of audiences, then it makes sense to go out and speak to plenty of those people to build that list that way. If someone was sitting here listening to you, and oh, so before I say that, you often talk about Ed Milett. I know you're a big fan of his.
And I think something that, what's the quote that you often say that he says it's just about the echo?
[Speaker 1] (31:14 - 32:31)
Yeah, so he's got a great podcast. It's called The Ed Milett Show. But one of his episodes, and I heard it ages ago, it's called The Echo of Life.
And in that podcast episode, highly recommend it. I'll put the, I'll send you the link so you can put it in the notes for anyone who's interested. Is he talks about, similar to what Keith Abraham says, whatever effort you're putting in now, you will see the benefits and reap the rewards of that at some stage in the future.
You just don't know when it's gonna be. So whether it's 30 days, whether it's 60 days, whether it's 96 months, whatever it happens to be, but putting in the effort for your future, like put your effort in now for your future results later. And that's something that I'm always reminded of.
Whenever, you know, in this thought leadership practice, when you're running your own business, there is the peaks and the troughs and a bit of the rollercoaster, but putting in the effort now for tomorrow's benefit, you know, when's the best time to plant a tree 20 years ago? When's the next time to do the work right now? And I love his take on it, just the way that he explains the importance of doing it, even when you don't feel like it, because at some stage it's gonna catch up with you.
And at some stage you're gonna see it. And, you know, for my own, I guess, personal experience, that's been really true. The more I put my foot down on the accelerator, turns out that turns up the dial, you know, whether it's three months later, six months later, 12 months, sometimes as well.
[Speaker 2] (32:31 - 34:09)
Yeah. I think you're a great example of, you know, as you said, Keith Abraham talks about activity solves inactivity. And if something, if nothing's happening, make something happen.
Don't sit around and wait and complain that it's not happening. Like put something on. So you've done things like you've put breakfast on, where you've created events for your ideal clients to come along.
You've shared your IP. They get to connect with each other. That's building lead.
Your podcast is a good example. The content you bring out in your newsletter, you've got a book coming soon. You know, all those things and doing it with four little boys and being an amazing mum, just trying to, you know, we're all in awe of just how you do it, but you've brought on support over the last 12 months.
So you've engaged people like VAs and now started to be able to get some things and some systems in place and delegating so that you can get those in place. So you come off stage, right? Here's the leads.
We get those in the system. What's the follow-up? All those types of things that are starting to happen now.
So that like you say, you've got strategy and systems so that you can wing it and do all the other creative stuff that you can be creative because you know all those things are in place. If someone was listening to this, Ali, and they were saying, oh my God, Ali is so me. That is me to a T.
-
What advice would you have for them? Like if you had your time again or if you could, you know, if you're in your shoes 12 months ago and you wish you'd done anything differently, what would you say to them?
[Speaker 1] (34:09 - 36:23)
Yeah, really good question. And I think just to caveat my response, please don't think I'm doing this all by myself. As Jay mentioned, I do have an incredible team who are good at all the things that I'm not good at, which I think is a really important thing, find people that fill your gaps because I'm not interested in attention to detail.
I'm not interested in learning how to systemize and automate and data entry and the things that don't light me up. There are people on my team that love it, absolutely love it. So I think finding people around you that can support your weaknesses, so to speak.
And also for those other women who are trying to juggle work-life balance, I also have an incredible husband who does a lot, you know, we're 50-50 in all things, which does make a huge difference. And I know that that's not the case for everyone. So just to caveat, I don't do all of the things all of the time.
I have people, I have people around me that are incredible. But I think one of the, or a few pieces of advice for anyone who's, you know, a baby Allie or in that stage is find a really great coach. I jumped in early on, but I think finding someone who is doing what you're doing and doing it at an exceptional level is really important.
Building a community around you. So if you've worked with Jane or heard any probably of other podcasts talking about Dunbar's model of who's on your panel of advisors or your advisory panel, that is so important. And I think mostly to get out of your own echo chamber, like it's really easy to get stuck in your own thinking and being surrounded by people who haven't elevated their thinking or they've kind of, you know, reached their pinnacle.
So having people on your advisory panel that can stretch you when you're going, holy moly, whoa, then you probably found the right people to go, yeah, I wanna hang out with them a little bit more. And I think, you know, having that cadence in place as well, whether it's your cadence on newsletters, cadence on publishing things, doing the work and just sticking to five things a day to get done. We tend to, as women, particularly write huge to-do lists that take longer to write than they do to execute.
So just focus on what's important is my advice.
[Speaker 2] (36:25 - 36:43)
Yeah, I love it. So get the right mentor, get the community around you, cadence and rhythms, particularly around thinking, publishing, newsletters, that kind of stuff. And I love this, these five things a day.
Just you can't do everything in a day, but just choose your top five, yeah, of what you get done and prioritize.
[Speaker 1] (36:44 - 36:45)
Yeah. Hot tip, email's not one of them.
[Speaker 2] (36:48 - 37:00)
Yes, absolutely. The sooner you can get that one outsourced and delegated, the better. Thank you so much for jumping on.
If people want to follow you, Ali, where would you like them to go?
[Speaker 1] (37:00 - 37:34)
Yeah, sure. I hang out mostly on LinkedIn. That's my place.
So you can find me Ali Nitsche. I'll spell it because it's tricky. It's N-I-T-S-C-H-K-E.
But I would love to connect on there as well. So yeah, thank you very much. If anyone's interested in some more stuff around courageous conversations, we've got a little guide that we're trying to spread far and wide so that people can have those tough conversations.
So that's madeformore.com.au forward slash courage. And I'll send you a copy of that so you can follow along.
[Speaker 2] (37:34 - 37:49)
Great. We'll pop it in the notes so everybody can access that as well and download it. So that would be terrific.
Thank you so much for being part of the day. And we hope to have you on again next year when we're celebrating bigger milestones, Yeah. Yes.
[Speaker 1] (37:49 - 37:58)
Thank you so much. And thank you always for your expertise and generosity. I love being part of your community and having you on my own panel.
So thank you very much.
[Speaker 2] (37:59 - 38:00)
Thank you. Thanks, Sally.
