Episode 64- Retail Leadership Expert Alison Crabb

26 June

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In this episode of The Jane Anderson Show, my special guest is Alison Crabb. She spent 25 years working for one of Australia’s most recognized and successful retailers. She lead the largest division within the Flight Centre Travel Group, which delivered the companies most profit globally for 8 consecutive years. She is an expert in retail operations and leadership, leading teams and teaching others to create an environment of trust, purpose and inspired culture, where people work cohesively towards shared goals.

She was responsible for delivering profit from $18 million to $49 million in 8 years. Winner of the Flight Centre Director’s award for Global Outstanding Achievement and Finalist in Telstra’s Business Woman of the Year.

Take the time to listen to Alison today.

You can find Alison on LinkedIn or at Alisoncrabb.

Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

In this segment, Jane Anderson introduces the podcast, welcoming listeners to the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. She highlights the podcast's focus on helping experts increase their impact, influence, and income in their businesses and careers. Anderson expresses her excitement about the community's involvement and discusses the upcoming guest, Alison Crabb, a retail leadership expert with a remarkable track record. Crabb's extensive experience includes leadership roles in well-known retail brands like the Flight Centre Travel Group. Anderson encourages listeners to engage with the podcast, subscribe to stay updated, and explore upcoming events on her website.
Alison Crabb shares her journey from teaching to a 25-year career in the travel industry, notably with the Flight Centre Travel Group. She discusses her passion for leadership development and the pivotal role it played in her success, leading the most successful division within Flight Centre. Crabb reflects on her decision to transition from corporate to starting her own practice, emphasizing her focus on leveraging her expertise and intellectual property (IP) to make a difference in the world. Anderson praises Crabb's accomplishments and highlights her dedication to human connection and leadership development.
Anderson and Crabb delve into the details of Crabb's practice, focusing on her expertise in retail leadership. They discuss Crabb's book, "The Essential Guide for Area Leaders in Retail," highlighting its significance in showcasing her knowledge and expertise in the field. Crabb explains the process of writing her book, particularly during the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, and its impact in attracting attention from retailers and potential clients. Anderson commends Crabb's strategic focus on a niche market within retail leadership, emphasizing the importance of specialization for business success.
Crabb emphasizes the importance of her book as a key asset in establishing her credibility and attracting clients in the retail industry. She discusses her decision to focus on retail leadership specifically, acknowledging the effectiveness of niche specialization in her practice. Crabb reflects on her initial broad approach to leadership consulting and the pivotal role her book played in refining her focus and positioning within the market. Anderson and Crabb further discuss Crabb's decision to write a book on retail leadership instead of a broader leadership book. Crabb explains her rationale for narrowing her market focus to retail leadership, emphasizing her passion and expertise in the field. She reflects on the initial challenges of trying to cater to a broader audience and the success she found after embracing her specialization. Anderson acknowledges the impact of Crabb's book in positioning her as a leading authority in retail leadership. Crabb discusses the difficulty she faced in demonstrating her expertise during meetings with retailers, particularly due to their in-house training programs. She highlights the difference between broad leadership training offered by retailers and her book, which provides a prescriptive guide tailored specifically for area leaders in retail. Crabb emphasizes the importance of her book in offering practical solutions for area leaders to manage their roles effectively and efficiently.
Crabb shares her remarkable experience of connecting with a billionaire retailer who read her book and reached out to her for a Zoom call. She describes how her book reached the billionaire through another major retailer she started working with, leading to new opportunities to work with prominent brands.
Crabb underscores the power of her book as a tool for attracting high-profile clients and expanding her practice.
Crabb discusses the importance of collateral, such as her book and brochure, in shaping her market positioning, particularly in the retail industry.
She reflects on her decision to focus on retail leadership and the impact of refining her collateral to clearly communicate her expertise.
Crabb highlights the role of her brochure in streamlining the client acquisition process, enabling her to offer tailored solutions and pricing models effectively. She emphasizes the significance of collateral, including brochures and websites, in facilitating the sales process and communicating value to potential clients. She shares her experience of using brochures to present clear solutions and pricing models, ultimately accelerating the decision-making process and securing high-value contracts. Crabb discusses her ongoing efforts to refine her website as part of her strategy to enhance market visibility and client engagement. Crabb explains her decision to adopt a per person pricing model based on her understanding of the retail market and buying cycles. She discusses the benefits of this pricing approach in simplifying the decision-making process for clients and aligning with their budgeting preferences. Crabb emphasizes the importance of understanding the market dynamics and customer buying behavior in designing effective pricing strategies and communication tactics.
Crabb reflects on the courage required to embrace niche positioning and narrow her focus within the retail industry. She acknowledges the support and guidance she received in refining her market positioning, particularly in optimizing her LinkedIn profile. Crabb emphasizes the importance of confidence and comfort in navigating the challenges and uncertainties associated with niche specialization and market positioning.

Crabb reflects on the process of refining her brand to align with her niche in retail leadership. She discusses the importance of updating her website and collateral to reflect her expertise in the retail industry, which required overcoming initial fears of narrowing her focus. Crabb emphasizes the positive impact of niche positioning in attracting referrals and establishing herself as a go-to expert within the retail sector. She also highlights the significance of updating her branding elements, such as photos and wardrobe, to better resonate with her target demographic.
Crabb acknowledges a previous oversight in not prioritizing list building in her business strategy during the initial years. She discusses the challenges of creating relevant content for a diverse audience and the transformation she experienced after narrowing her focus to the retail sector. Crabb emphasizes the importance of understanding her target market's needs and preferences, which has facilitated the creation of targeted newsletters and blog posts. She highlights the efficiency gained from having a clear understanding of her audience, enabling her to generate content more effortlessly and consistently.
Crabb discusses her strategy of outsourcing tasks to specialized experts to optimize her business operations. She shares her experience of transitioning from a single business manager to a team of professionals handling specific aspects of her practice, such as marketing, program management, and financial administration. Crabb emphasizes the benefits of delegating tasks to individuals with expertise in their respective fields, leading to improved efficiency and quality of work. She highlights the importance of effective communication and systemization in streamlining business processes and maintaining consistency.

Crabb discusses the software platforms she utilizes to streamline her business operations and enhance productivity. She mentions platforms like Asana for project management and Practice in a Box for systemization, emphasizing the benefits of systemization in ensuring consistency and efficiency. Crabb also shares her plans to transition from MailChimp to ActiveCampaign and her adoption of Kajabi for course delivery, highlighting the role of technology in scaling her practice and improving client experience. She underscores the importance of selecting the right tools to support business growth and streamline operations effectively.
Crabb reflects on the value of being part of a supportive community and receiving guidance in streamlining her business processes. She emphasizes the importance of leveraging expertise in areas like technology to avoid distractions and focus on her core competencies. Crabb highlights the significance of identifying her target audience and refining her messaging to effectively communicate her value proposition. She discusses her upcoming book projects, emphasizing the shift from operational to strategic leadership content tailored for state leaders and general managers in the retail industry.
The conversation transitions to a discussion on strategic leadership in retail, with a focus on talent retention and succession planning. Crabb and her counterpart explore the challenges faced by retail organizations in retaining skilled frontline employees amidst industry disruptions and shifting consumer behaviors. They emphasize the importance of creating a supportive work environment and strategic initiatives to enhance employee engagement and career development opportunities. The dialogue underscores the vital role of human capital in driving sustainable growth and innovation within the retail sector.
Crabb summarizes key takeaways from her journey, including the importance of niche positioning, outsourcing to experts, and building a consistent brand presence. She offers advice to aspiring entrepreneurs, urging them to embrace niche specialization and prioritize list building to cultivate a loyal audience. Crabb reflects on the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic in fostering discipline and resilience, driving her to focus on essential business priorities and maintain consistency in her operations.
In conclusion, Crabb expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share her insights and experiences. She provides her contact information for individuals interested in connecting with her and expresses appreciation for the support received throughout her journey. The conversation ends on a positive note, with both parties looking forward to future collaborations and milestones.

Full Show Transcript:

[Speaker 2] (0:09 - 4:57)
Hi there, my name is Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. Hi there and welcome to the Jane Anderson Show.

I am so thrilled you are here and thank you for being part of our community. This podcast is all about being able to introduce you to people that we've worked with and exciting guests who have in particular grown their practices and their consulting practices to be able to get their message out there, to be able to tap into and leverage their expertise to grow their businesses and to be able to have that impact that they really wanted to have in their work and also to really live the dream, is to be able to really be able to enjoy what they're doing and to be able to have the flexibility, the lifestyle and the freedom to be able to do and create the life that they want to live. So today's very special guest is, I want to share with you, her name is Alison Crabb.

She is a retail leadership expert and she spent 25 years working with some of Australia's most recognised and successful retailers. She led the largest division of the Flight Centre Travel Group, which is a big travel chain that you've probably come across, and she ran that division for eight years and her focus was on continuing improvement. So she saw her division recognised as the group's most improved division for six out of those eight years.

So she's got an incredible record of success. She really focuses in on retail operations and leadership, leading teams and teaching others to create an environment of trust, purpose and inspired culture where people work cohesively towards really those shared goals. She led multiple brands under the Flight Centre Travel Group.

She was responsible for delivering results in over 200 stores, in excess of 100 new stores as an area leader and state manager. She delivered profit from $18 million to $49 million in eight years and she was the winner of the Flight Centre Director's Award for Global Outstanding Achievement. She was also a finalist in the Telstra Business Women's Award a few years ago.

Some of the retailers that she's worked with have included companies like the Accent Group, Levisa, Officeworks, Strandbags, The Reject Shop, Blue Illusion, Travel Associates, Travelex, 99 Bikes and the Pancake Parlour. These are all big brands here in Australia if you haven't heard of these before. I really wanted to get Alison on because she's done a phenomenal job in building her practice.

She's really open today and being able to share some super practical things. I love how straight talking she is and she cuts through the crap and to be able to tell you exactly what you need to do and some of the things that she's implemented in her practice. If you want to reach out after the podcast, you're most welcome to send me a note.

You can jump on the Jane Anderson website, jane-anderson.com or make sure you subscribe. Join the community so that you keep up to date with the latest podcasts and all the other information that's coming out. Also, we have some events coming up in 2022, so make sure you jump on and you can see on the events page what's on as well.

So take a listen to the podcast. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your insights and what you learned from Alison.
All right. Hi there, Alison. Thank you so much for jumping onto the podcast today.

I have been so pumped in being able to interview you today. You have one of the most extraordinary practices and particularly coming from a retail background. My God, I wish I met you years ago when I was a retail area manager.

But Alison, you're on today because I wanted to have the opportunity to speak with you or ask you and go under the bonnet in your practice because you have this incredible practice and you obsess around the human connection in your in your practice. You've come from an extraordinarily successful corporate career in being able to, you know, you looked after the largest division in Flight Centre that was the most successful in the division. You held that position for eight years and now you're out working with other organisations, particularly retailers, to help them to, you know, emulate this similar success.

And you've written your book, you've done all this incredible work. Let's start with tell us about your practice. How did you start your practice?

Like, did you just jump out of corporate or did you build up inside? Like, how did all that happen to get to where you are today?

[Speaker 1] (4:58 - 8:03)
Yeah, thanks, Jane. Thanks for having me. Yeah, well, I guess, you know, what I thought would be after graduating from Teachers College, teaching for a few years, I thought I'd just take a year away from teaching and go and have a fun job and travel industry sounded like fun.

So I thought I'll do that for a year and then go back into my real job of teaching. But of course, I managed to get a job with the Flight Centre and 12 months led to 25 years. So that 12 months sabbatical didn't quite pan out how I had thought.

But I had an amazing 25 years with an extraordinarily fabulous company. And I guess the key thing about that selling travel is that the only the only product you've really got or the only asset you've got is people. We're not not a retailer that's got products on the shelf.

So you can you know, you can buy that same seat on a plane from anywhere. So why would you buy it from from Flight Centre? So I guess I had a fabulous degree, if you like, in how to lead people, because that's really all you had.

So I guess thank you for acknowledging my success. I'm really proud of what I was able to achieve at Flight Centre. And I through that, I guess that teaching background, it's always been in my blood.

But I think the number one thing that really drove my results was people development and particularly leadership development. I had a very, very big team. You know, I had fourteen hundred people at one stage.

I led two hundred and twelve stores across five five brands. So really, leadership development was my number one strategy. So it's always been my thing, my passion.

So I guess, you know, I came to a point where I was turning 50 and leading such a large business. It was a lot of work. And at times it was exhausting as much as I loved it.

And so I think I got close to turning 50 and thought, is this how I want to spend the next decade? And I headed off on a European holiday in the November for three weeks. And that was going to be my time to really reflect on what I wanted to do.

And I took a little notebook with me. I read a couple of really fantastic books. And when I got back, I'd made the decision, along with Shane, my husband, that I was done.

So I resigned November 15 and finished up with Flight Centre in March 16. So I gave four months notice and started my practice in May 16. So it was a very short leading time.

Yeah. And it's fair to say I probably didn't quite know what I was doing. But at the start, all I knew is that I had really good IP and I just needed to get it out to to the world.

And so, yeah, I mean, I'm coming up to five years now and, you know, my practice has grown and I've learnt a lot. And yeah, I'm really happy with what I've achieved so far.

[Speaker 2] (8:04 - 10:14)
You've done an incredible job. Like I'm just looking at things even behind you. Like I'm looking at your branding, positioning, like you've got so the positioning or the category is a retail leadership expert.

And then behind you, you've got inspiring the humanity of business. So this is the obsession that you kind of have or that worldview that you're seeing when you're working with these leaders around this humanness and connection. And that's if we look at, you know, the notes, if I go back, two big things that you delivered.

These are the things that drove your success, like 18 million to a 49 million dollar profit when you're at Flight Centre. This was sort of this obsession that you had around particularly the leadership development to get those sorts of results over eight years. You won the Flight Centre's Director's Award for Global Outstanding Achievement.

You're a finalist in the Telstra Businesswomen's Award. So these aren't this isn't just kind of it's easy to get caught up in, I think, in the idealism of, oh, that sounds really nice. But this actually really means something.

It's really concrete and a key part of the results that that that you drive. And looking behind you, you've got books on your shelf as well. That big pile there.

Is that your book behind you? Yes. Yes.

Tell I'd love to know. So can you grab one and show us? Love to see it.

Well, we've got you. This is your book, The Essential Guide for Area Leaders. And what does it say?

Just lift it up a little bit in retail. Yeah. So, man, I wish I had that book when I was an area manager.

Allison, you've done some like I mean, a book is an incredible milestone to implement or to create, like to actually have to know what to say. And if a book's a really vulnerable piece of work to do as well, if you think about some of the things that you've implemented, like a book's one thing, what are some of the things that, you know, to be able to get you've had incredible growth in your practice and the organisations that you're working with now, what do you think have been some of the things that have been pivotal to your success and that you've done, I would say, even just the last 12 months?

[Speaker 1] (10:15 - 12:11)
Yeah, look, I would say the book has been the number one collateral, if you like. And I wrote the book in well, I started writing the book, you know, as we all experienced through COVID, you know, my diary, like many people, was cleaned out within three days. Yeah, after having a massive meltdown, and thinking, what am I going to do now, you know, three years of hard work has all gone in three days.

And then once I, you know, recalibrated where I was at, I thought, right, you know, I've been trying to get this book done. I think it took me 18 months to get 7000 words done. And I thought, right, I'm going to be in lockdown, which I thought would be about 12 weeks.

And I thought, that's it, I'm just going to focus on this book. And that was all in my head. I knew my content.

It's it wasn't a hard book to write. It was just focusing and being disciplined on the time. So I made a commitment that I would over the over the next, you know, however long it would take, write 500 words a day, right, even days that I didn't feel like writing the seven days a week, it was 500 words a day.

Now, there were some days where I was, you know, on a roll and got 4000 words done. But the commitment was always 500 words a day. OK, so it took 13 weeks to get the book written and off to the editor, off to the designer.

And in September 2020, the book arrived in my little hands. Then the key was getting it out, obviously getting it out to the world. It's a very specific book for retail, for a very specific role, which I believe is the best job in the world in retail when done well.

But I also think it has the greatest impact on results for a retailer.

[Speaker 2] (12:11 - 12:11)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (12:12 - 12:42)
And prior to that, of course, I was really trying to break through in the retail market, but it was really hard to demonstrate your expertise. Right. And having this book, getting it out and more importantly, getting amazing feedback without even asking for it, I was getting LinkedIn messages and emails from great retailers saying, got your book, you're so on point.

It's very specific to the role. You clearly know this role. We would love to have a chat.

And so things sort of evolved from there.

[Speaker 2] (12:42 - 12:53)
So Alison, like that book, when you look at it, why did you decide to write that one instead of just a leadership book instead of that one in particular?

[Speaker 1] (12:54 - 14:18)
Yeah, look, when I first set up my practice, my thing was people leadership, leading people. But I look back now and that is so broad. Leading people is so broad.

And even though clearly leading people is relevant to every industry, even a tech industry, it's about leading people. And so what I the advice I got that I didn't take was that I need to get very narrow on my market. My thing is retail and people who know me well know that I'm a retail leadership expert.

That's what I do. That's what that's what achieved all my results. But in my head, it was like, no, no, no.

Retail won't invest only in leadership. I need to be all things to all people. And that's what I tried to do.

And look, I did have some success. I did OK, but it wasn't until that I wrote the book with no expectation that it was going to change my practice. It was really more this has been this is a love piece of work, if you like, a passion piece of work.

And I know it can make a difference if I get it out. And so that was one that got me through COVID in the first lockdown. But secondly, I'm really proud of the book.

I look at it now and I think that those strategies in the book are still relevant today. There's nothing I would change.

[Speaker 2] (14:19 - 14:26)
So that was even and that was there was really nothing even written for area managers. There isn't any really.

[Speaker 1] (14:27 - 14:39)
No, well, when I would approach retailers and I did have some meetings, I found it really hard to demonstrate my expertise in a meeting. You might have 20 minutes, half an hour to demonstrate your expertise.

[Speaker 2] (14:39 - 14:40)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (14:41 - 15:17)
And what I would often come up against, particularly with the larger retailers, was, oh, we do all of our own in-house training. And yes, they do. But what I found was it was very broad to leadership.

It was just very broad of the ransom communication strategies and things like that. Whereas this book is a prescriptive how to guide to be an impactful area leader or manager and do it in a way where you are not working 20 hours a day, which is what many area leaders are doing to get the job done.

[Speaker 2] (15:19 - 15:32)
And Alison, the impact of that you started to talk about, you had people reaching out to you on LinkedIn, you started to get all these messages and then you even got a message from a billionaire.

[Speaker 1] (15:32 - 16:21)
Is that right? I did. The book got into the hands of a billionaire, legendary retailer who lives in Monaco.

Yes. But he was the key founder of some of Australia's biggest retailers, you know, Adair's, Brazen Extra, and he's the major shareholder of a couple of really big retailers here in Australia. And so he read the book.

I got this email one night and when I googled who he was, I went, oh, wow. And so, of course, I emailed him straight back because in his message, he said, I'd love to organise a Zoom call with you. So it was about a week later we had a Zoom.

He shared more about his story. I shared more about mine. And now I'm working in some of his really big brands, which is great.

Yeah, that's amazing.

[Speaker 2] (16:22 - 16:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (16:23 - 16:47)
And how did the book get into his hands? Well, it was through another major retailer that that I just started working with. And after even just two days of my Ultimate Area Leader program, after the first two days, the feedback they received was incredible.

And so he sent a copy of the book over to Monaco. And that's how it all got going. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (16:47 - 17:32)
It's amazing, isn't it? Like just the power of a piece of collateral like that, how it talks for you when you're not there. It's something that can travel and move.

And in your case, it moved from not just someone's office in a business within four walls of a building, but it travelled to Monaco. That's incredible. Alison, what impact do you, what are some of the other collateral that or what role, what impact do you think collateral and the right collateral and actually it's a discipline to sit down and write these things, like you said, you know, like even just your book.

But what impact, what are some of the collateral that you've built and what impact have they had for you in your practice?

[Speaker 1] (17:34 - 18:41)
Yeah, I mean, look, you might recall back in October 2020, of course, the book came out in September. So really what I needed to do was to be able to leverage the book and really start to hone my positioning around retail. You know, I've really made the decision I'm going all in with retail.

And of course, I've got clients in other industry, particularly in sport, in the travel industry, et cetera. But probably 70 percent of my work now is retail. And that's when I connected with you back in October 2020.

And my number one thing was about, you know, really that positioning. And so, you know, through the Joyful Selling Women with Influence group that I'm a part of with you, it was really about honing in all of my collaterals so that everything was on point and it was very clear to anybody that read anything knew what I did. So it was my LinkedIn profile.

So instead of it being, you know, speaker, trainer, author, it was more about retail leadership, expert, area leader development, state manager development, et cetera. So very clear straight away what I did.

[Speaker 2] (18:41 - 18:42)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (18:42 - 20:02)
I would say probably the biggest piece of collateral that's made the biggest difference would be having a brochure. Right. So instead of me going prior to having the brochure before working with you, I would go into an organisation, you'd listen to their challenges, you'd go away, you'd put a proposal together, even though you knew what 80 percent of their challenges were going to be.

You'd go away and you'd put a proposal together and then you'd send them the proposal and then you'd spend weeks chasing them up and where, you know, how did you find the proposal, et cetera? Yes. Well, long drawn out.

But what I realise now is sometimes a client, they know what they want to fix, but they don't know how to do it. Yes. So by having the brochure, what I do now and have done since you helped me with my brochure back in January, the brochure speaks very clearly that I know what the problems are broadly and here is the solution and here's what it costs.

This is what you know, this is how I can help you and this is what you'd be looking at. And the feedback I've had from every retailer that I've met with now is, wow, she knows her stuff. She clearly knows what our problems are.

And they also love, here's the price.

[Speaker 2] (20:02 - 20:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (20:05 - 20:51)
And so it makes selling really easy. Yes. It speeds it up because, of course, I'm not now going away writing proposals because I've got, here's the ultimate area leader, bronze, silver, gold sort of thing.

This is what I'd recommend for what you're looking at, et cetera. And they love it. And, you know, I sold a $50,000 program in 40 minutes with a brochure.

And this was a retailer that I couldn't even get a meeting with because they said that they do all their own in-house training. Right. Just give me half an hour of your time.

Right. I sent the book. They loved the book.

And yeah, $50,000 program in 40 minutes.

[Speaker 2] (20:51 - 21:10)
Wow. So they got the book, you went into the meeting, you had a brochure there and decisions made like they could see the value of what you're bringing rather than trying to trying to describe or, like you said, demonstrate your expertise with nothing for you.

[Speaker 1] (21:10 - 22:06)
Yeah. So it was really perfecting the brochure, particularly the work that I did with you around my value model and and those little elements of the brochure that really made a difference. And the other thing, had I even had a brochure, I may have even just had my brochure on the website and you were very much like, no, no, no, no, no.

That's for when you meet with them. Yeah. And that makes so much sense now, of course.

So, you know, just those little, little, little things that make a huge difference. And then, of course, my website for and that's something for my when I look for 2022, what's my number one strategy? I'm going to be obsessed over my website, obsessed with my website.

So I'm doing a major overhaul, even though it's probably 70 percent. OK, as I've evolved and as I've learned more through this year, my my website needs to evolve as well. So that's a big project I'm working on.

Hopefully get it finished by Friday. That's my goal.

[Speaker 2] (22:06 - 22:07)
Awesome.

[Speaker 1] (22:07 - 22:08)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (22:08 - 24:14)
It's you know, because these are all collateral that are talking for you when you're not in the room, isn't it? And it's all yeah. How do I keep describing my value?

Whichever touch point people interact with, whether it's a book, the website and the website can be hard because you you sort of sometimes just I don't know, just get something up that'll do. But the thing is, is that if if this if the website's not right, you don't get clients calling you saying, do you know your landing page has got no it doesn't address my problems and it doesn't you're not going to get that kind of feedback. So you just don't know.

And but a couple of things you've mentioned here is just around the collateral, speeding up the process. And so when you're in that meeting with those clients, is that, you know, you were a bit closer to a yes, no or maybe. And even if it's a no, that's fine.

At least we know. And then and if you you know, they're way off the mark, we've got no budget. OK, well, at least we know or you can work out a solution.

And so you're getting a bit closer to when do you want to run it, as opposed to the next conversation is, oh, we'll take the brochure and we'll talk or we'll go away and build a proposal, like you said. And that drags out for weeks. And then you're like, oh, these people said they were going ahead.

And my pipeline, you're stuffing up my pipeline because you go ahead. And that creates all that stress and anxiety, doesn't it? It does.

It does. There's something that you talked about quite early on that you did specifically even in your brochures to get things to work quite right for you. And that is around understanding how your customer buys.

And you talked a lot about you really understood pricing models and just how to get it. Like one thing is to get that value proposition right and to be able to value your expertise. But even some of the things I think about and remember and you still obsess about this now is even per person pricing as opposed to package pricing.

Are you happy to share a little bit about your thinking behind that and what you've done?

[Speaker 1] (24:15 - 24:28)
Yeah, look, you need to know your market fairly well. But the way I designed the brochure was rather than it being and this program will cost $50,000, I did it on a per person basis.

[Speaker 2] (24:28 - 24:28)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (24:28 - 25:22)
Because I know my market. I typically know how many area leaders in an organization and how many are in each state, et cetera. So what I did is went to a per person model.

So, you know, for instance, one of the programs is $3,000 per person. So for a senior leader, it's a very easy decision to say, oh, wow, $3,000 for a senior leader for a six month program. Oh, wow.

That's really good. That's really good value. You know, that's not a lot to invest in our people.

And so then when you do the numbers, because I know my market, it would it would typically turn into around a 45 to $70,000 program on a per person basis. So, of course, you know, you need to know your market a little bit to do that. But I found that that's worked so much better.

[Speaker 2] (25:22 - 25:23)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (25:23 - 25:23)
For me.

[Speaker 2] (25:24 - 26:11)
Yeah. And you really understand those buying cycles, too. Like you're coming into retail.

OK, well, you pretty much can't talk to us in Christmas. December, January and then February, you go back to school type stuff or you go back to work times like knowing that customer and those retail cycles and how they buy timing of things. Your comms like you religiously are doing your newsletter all the time.

You're so on brand. So I love these comments you've made here around, you know, focusing in on that positioning, getting really tight on the nation, knowing exactly who you serve. And that takes a lot of courage and a lot of comfort.

You know, people say confidence. I think it's courage. It's a lot of there's a lot of fear that comes with that nation, doesn't it?

[Speaker 1] (26:12 - 27:19)
Totally, totally. I mean, the first thing I went very narrow on was my LinkedIn profile. I remember you and I spent quite a bit of time where you pulled my LinkedIn profile apart, gave me lots of advice.

And then I spent the next couple of days updating it and getting it really on brand, which I was hyperventilating because, you know, this mindset that I had that many of us have gone through with. No, no, no. Because then what if someone out of retail wants me, though?

You know, it was this, you know, that surely if I just call myself a leadership expert, I'll attract more clients. But no, it is so counterintuitive. I know, but it works.

Yeah, the closer I got to I, I'm a retail leadership expert. I specifically work with area leaders, state managers, executive teams. It changed everything.

And so then the next thing was my website. Yeah, that was another big, you know, and slowly now my website is just, you know, retail, very retail focused. And it's about to go into another update this week with even more narrower in retail.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (27:20 - 28:11)
Yeah, I love that. You know, it takes so much courage to do that. But once you've got it means you're so much more referable.

And it's a big people go, oh, it's retail. Oh, you need to talk to Alison. Like, there's just no question about it.

Like, oh, no, I didn't. I was a leadership expert. Oh, there's this person, this person, this person.

Oh, maybe you should talk to Alison. Like, you're not the first thought. But if you've got that narrowing in the niche, is that you should go straight away to Alison and, you know, you've got to talk to her.

So you've had a social media campaign. And what about in terms of your growth over the like you because you had new photos done, you had a wardrobe update. You've had and what other things like you've had systems, new business manager come on board?

What are some of those? Are you happy to go into like some of those types of things that you've done as well?

[Speaker 1] (28:12 - 29:00)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What I noticed then when I looked at my photos for my website and for anything, really, they were a bit corporatey.

So they were a bit more suit type, you know. And what I need, what I what I needed was to suit that retail market. You know, I work with a younger demographic now and I needed to be a little bit more, a little bit more relaxed.

So I had a new set of photos done, which were me in white, white sneakers and, you know, blue jeans and things like that. So just suited that retail market a little bit better. It was still, you know, well presented, et cetera.

But it was just that younger looking, you know, a bit more hip. And the photos were a bit more relaxed as well. Not so corporatey behind a desk.

[Speaker 2] (29:00 - 29:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (29:01 - 30:27)
But a bit more, you know, hanging on a chair or hanging behind a chair, sitting on the floor, you know, just a little bit more of a casual, you know, a casual pace. And I think, you know, the narrower you can get in your market, it actually makes life easier for everything else. I'd have to be honest and say the biggest, you know, the biggest when I look back, the biggest mistake I made, one of the biggest mistakes I made is for the first two years, I didn't focus on list building.

In other words, I would go and run a workshop and that might be in the sports industry or in a tech company. And I would, you know, work with them. And then I would not collect their data.

I had no newsletter. I didn't even connect with them on LinkedIn most of the time. And I think what look at all that great data that I've lost in that first first couple of years.

And again, that was sort of what you helped me with was, no, you need to be list building. You need it. And so then when I got things going with my newsletter, the part of the reason why I wasn't list building, what I realised, the reason why I wasn't list building before is writing a newsletter was so hard because who am I writing it to?

What are their problems? Well, it depends what industry they're in. And so it became so difficult to write a newsletter or a blog.

And even when you write one, maybe you hit the mark, maybe you didn't.

[Speaker 2] (30:27 - 30:27)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (30:27 - 30:45)
Whereas the narrower I became by focusing on retail, I know their problems. I know what they need. And so writing a newsletter, writing a blog became so much easier.

So, of course, now I've got the cadence of writing regularly because I know who I'm writing to and what I need to be writing about. Right.

[Speaker 2] (30:46 - 30:56)
So you don't have to overthink it. You just go, yeah, great. That piece of content I know exactly.

Oh, or if you're in a workshop that week and you go, oh, this problem's come up. Oh, there's a blog in that.

[Speaker 1] (30:56 - 30:56)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (30:56 - 31:00)
So you're not overthinking. Oh, hang on. Is that relevant for that group and not that one?

[Speaker 1] (31:00 - 31:17)
And that's right. And then soon as I'm about to start working with a group, I, you know, obviously we collect their data. It goes, we connect on LinkedIn, go straight into my newsletter, into my database.

And so I'm connected with them straight away, you know.

[Speaker 2] (31:18 - 31:37)
So you've got those systems in place now. So you turn up great email, done with newsletter. Yeah.

And now you've got the rhythm sort of moving. So what else have you done with your systems to sort of get them moving because you brought on a business manager as well? That's a big step to do.

[Speaker 1] (31:37 - 33:47)
Look, what I what I did in June of this year, I had prior to that, I had one business manager who did everything, so to speak. OK, so to speak, you know, did everything from, you know, trying to put a newsletter together to setting up meetings, you know, type thing. So what I and she still works for me, but she's now got a full time job through COVID.

We decided that was going to be good for her. And so she still works for me. Her passion and her skill is designing collaterals and putting amazing things together.

So she works probably about four hours a month for me and designs my brochures, designs any piece of any worksheets or anything I need, etc. for any of my programs. So what I've done is what I call outsourcing to experts.

And this is a you've got to implement this strategy. You've got to be aware of this, the pitfall, not pitfalls, but the things you have to do as the leader of your practice. So I have a bookkeeper who does all my invoicing and my quarterly accounts, etc.

Right. I have a business manager slash programs manager. She literally runs the program.

So everything from setting it all up, setting everything up so that each workshop is planned, structured. Worksheets are printed for everything. A lot of client facing stuff.

And and then I have somebody who does all my social media and marketing, etc. So I found it outsourcing to experts. I'm getting much better quality of work.

And what you need to be aware of, though, as the leader of your practice, that you need to commit to communication with each of those people. So with my social media person, we meet the first Monday of a new month. And we work out.

It takes about half an hour. What the plan is for the month. Yes.

My programs manager, we meet for a coffee if we can on a Monday. If not, it's on Zoom every Monday. Yeah.

And then we have a 15 minute meeting on a Wednesday and a Friday morning.

[Speaker 2] (33:47 - 33:48)
Great.

[Speaker 1] (33:49 - 34:25)
And that who does all my collaterals, it's on a as needs basis. And my bookkeeper, we've got a little spreadsheet going. I update the spreadsheet if an invoice needs to go out or needs to be created and with a date for it to go out.

And she just runs that. So it works beautifully. But I'm finding it's actually saved a lot of time because I'm using experts in their field for each element of my practice.

And I've found that's worked much better for me rather than having one person doing everything. There's a lot to ask of one person to be an expert on to do everything. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (34:26 - 35:40)
Oh, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. I reckon that's such a smart strategy because, you know, you go through this challenge of recruitment process. You're like, OK, I'll do up a job description.

I'll throw it on seek. I'll find a business manager. And then you're frustrated because they can't.

They go, oh, just get someone who's been in the E.A. in corporate. Or you go E.A. in corporate. They haven't used MailChimp, ActiveCampaign, Asana, like all the systems.

Well, haven't they? You know, a lot of the work for the person who's running your practice really is marketing and comms and program delivery. But even if it's program delivery, you know, ideally, they kind of need to come sometimes from a training background to know you've got to do confirmations and run sheets and, you know, all the feedback forms and, you know, all that sort of stuff.

So otherwise, you're just having to think of everything. And then, but I love this is that you're right. Is that if you can get those right people around you, people, it can sometimes I think sometimes people can be afraid of.

But that means me having to manage five different people. Well, actually, you actually end up managing a hell of a lot less. Correct.

Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (35:40 - 36:18)
Yeah. I found that because even putting a newsletter together, I had my business manager doing it. That's not her thing.

So she would often she'd send it to me and then I mean something and then she'd send it back and then we change it. So time consuming. Whereas now, you know, about a 20, 30 minute meeting once a month.

Map it out. This is the message. This is what she what put something together.

And sometimes I might add a story, which clearly I've got to do. Yeah. Or add something to it.

But it's 95 percent done. It takes me 10 minutes to, you know, to and sometimes I don't change a thing. Right.

Perfect. Awesome. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (36:18 - 36:28)
And what are some of the software platforms you've got, Alison, like for for those newsletters? Are you like, is it MailChimp or ActiveCampaign? Or what do you find you use and work well?

[Speaker 1] (36:29 - 36:53)
Well, I think Bryony, who's come on as my business manager slash programs manager in June, she's the next flight center travel consultant. So clearly, skills wise is just so well suited. Having to multitask, be organized, etc.

Just she's just brilliant. Right. That's when you just started, I think, with practice in a box.

[Speaker 2] (36:53 - 36:54)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (36:54 - 37:56)
And I thought when I spoke to you about, I thought, wow, this is the perfect time maybe to look at doing that. So that's what we did. So we set up Asana, that platform.

And then you set up the practice in a box and Bryony just ran with that. And I think it probably saved us six months of work because now everything is systemized now for a coaching client. It's systemized.

Ultimate Area Leader program, bronze, silver, gold, it's systemized. So nothing falls through the cracks and there's consistency. I'm a big, you know, big fan of consistency as well.

And that really helps with consistency. Yes. So that would be probably one of the key platforms.

I'm about to move from MailChimp to ActiveCampaign because my my practice has grown now where I need something a little bit more sophisticated. I've signed up to Kajabi, which again, Bryony's been running that. So, yeah, so they would be the main platforms that I that I'm using.

[Speaker 2] (37:56 - 38:27)
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's easy to I think there's so many different systems out there.

And I know we've been through I think I did five different CRMs before I just we should just bloody started with ActiveCampaign. And Asana is a progression, isn't it? Like you sort of start with your checklists, whether they were documents or spreadsheets and things.

But you do get to a point where you've got to be able to delegate and you've got to you can't keep repeating yourself and you can't keep waking up at night.

[Speaker 1] (38:28 - 38:29)
Have I done that?

[Speaker 2] (38:29 - 38:32)
Have I done that? Oh, shit. Hang on.

Exactly.

[Speaker 1] (38:32 - 39:12)
I haven't contacted that client. Oh, I really should reach out to that client. Like, yeah, and I think that's I think being part of your community has.

Saved me a lot of time and money by not trying different systems and things that, you know, you're very clear on which systems you feel work best for your practice, depending on where your practice is at. Yeah, I think it's just saved a lot of time and money rather than trying to experiment myself, which I'm not good at technology at the best of times. But it's certainly not my thing.

So tell me what I need to do, what platform to do it on, and I'm good to go.

[Speaker 2] (39:12 - 40:53)
But, you know, that's a really valuable point, Alison, because I think for a lot of particularly when you've had more than 20 years experience, you started back before computers were probably you were still probably doing memos on paper. You're probably around when computers were installed in the world. Mobile phones, Jane.

Right, exactly. Yeah. You still had to use the phone desk.

You know, so I think when you haven't come through, you know, particularly for those in our community, generally 20 plus years experience, so you've come through that transition. But you know, that whole goal is to happen. How can we keep you in your expertise?

Because we don't want you to have to become an Asana expert. We don't want you to have to become an active campaign because all those things are all distractions. And how can we just get the right, get the system right and keep it simple, that it will grow with your practice so you don't have to keep changing?

Yeah. And also because that's a big risk to your data as well. But also, like you said, with brownies is how do you bring on the right support if you can get those two things working, particularly once you get some runs on the board with your practices that with selling to get a few good deals under the law over the line?

OK, now I can start to move this out so I can just stay out here and keep creating, keep running. And you've done an incredible job at that. And now you're on to your next book.

Like you're now starting to get the space to go, OK, now I can start to focus on where my value continues to be. I can work out what's the next program I'm launching, which is so valuable. What's your next book going to be about, Alison?

[Speaker 1] (40:53 - 41:49)
So the next book will be I haven't exactly finalized the title, but it'll be the area leader book. It's very operational and very how to. Whereas the next book will be more for state leaders and general managers in retail, and it'll be a lot more strategic.

Right. OK, so the key elements from a strategy point of view, but not from, you know, you know, customer and omni channel and all of that. There are far better people qualified to speak of those things.

For me, it's always going to be about people, people at a strategic level. If you're the CEO or the general manager of a retailer, how do you lead your people at that level? So it's still going to be very people leadership focused, but at a not so hands on level, it's more at a strategic level.

So it'll be like the essential guide for general managers in retail sort of things.

[Speaker 2] (41:49 - 43:24)
And how good is that? Like, I think back to when I was like I was, as you know, had a capability super retail group. So, you know, to have someone like you back then, like we did, we just there was just no one like that around to be able to say, well, who gets that?

Who gets it? Because, you know, in my case, I know when I was delivering those programs, you know, we've got acquisition phases to go through. We've got how do we get leaders for the executive team?

It's now that retention, succession planning, you know, all those things to go. How do we create the future of our business? So which is all strategy.

And then to be able to go, well, how do we retain these people at that frontline, those area leaders? But now we've got to really think strategically about what we're trying to do in our growth and think and be really mindful around what are we going to do to make sure this is a great place to work and and how to continue and retain those people to keep them coming through, because retail is a tough game. Like, you know, I remember having a group of when I first started with a group and I was like, there's a 50 percent attrition rate here.

You know, you know, retail is tough, particularly people don't necessarily sometimes see it as a career path, but it can definitely be a career path. So I think a lot of retails, particularly post-COVID trying to work out how can we, you know, not lose good people so that we can, you know, create something really sustainable, regardless of what whether it's omnichannel, whatever it's bricks and mortar, if it's digital, it's a whole blend of all those things. How are we going to do it?

Because the future of retail is people, isn't it?

[Speaker 1] (43:24 - 44:18)
Absolutely. And, you know, particularly at the moment, you know, we hear about the great resignation of retail right now is really struggling, really, really struggling. And, you know, they've got to get typically a younger workforce.

And the stories I'm hearing, you know, particularly at the moment with having to check in at the door of, you know, when you go to go to go shopping, you know, each time you walk into a store, you've got to check in. And, you know, some of the horrific stories I've heard from people, you know, that I'm working with around customers, you know, staff copying abuse. And you've got 19, 20 year olds that are just trying to do what they've been told to do and do their best.

And so, you know, that is all impacting impacting retention as well. So what COVID has done for retail, there's never been a more important time right now to be focusing on people looking after them. Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (44:18 - 46:36)
So, Alison, here are big things I'm taking away here in terms of your practice. And thank you for being so open and generous today. You've talked about, you know, really focusing on the positioning, being able to get to a point where you can leverage your thinking and being able to get it, particularly in collateral.

Big one, you talked about the importance of your book. You talked about just other collateral, like telling the right story and being able to design those things, getting the right people around you. You talked about narrowing right into your niche.

And in your case is knowing, yep, my lane is retail. And and it's not that you don't ever going to expand from that. But your I think about Simon Sinek's start with why, which is all around that humanisation.

But it's it's also the starting with who, you know, quite often we get caught up in the what and the why, which is still really valuable, as you know, in the collateral. But it's hard. It's really tough to make that decision about who am I here to serve?

And you talked about your LinkedIn was the biggest hurdle, first of all, just to take that deep breath, you know, because it's so public. You're like, OK, I'm doing the right thing. Brochure, the value of those things, speeding up, getting clear around the value proposition and your value model.

You talked about being able to get that right now, tackling things like websites and those things that are talking for you and you're not in the room. And you talked about, you know, often when you're going in to see clients that, you know, they know what their problem is, but they don't know how to fix it. And that's why we've got to articulate that in those brochures.

You talked about the value of outsourcing to experts. Don't try to necessarily recruit everything into one person. Just try and find the people who can help you.

Social media, program manager, you talked about with Brony, having the systems in place. You talked about the bookkeeper. So just not trying to do too much with one person.

And I know I was absolutely guilty of that for a long time because people go, it's just easy. You just just get a businessman. Just get this.

Just hire offshore. Just do this. Just do that.

And it's so bloody hard.

[Speaker 1] (46:37 - 46:49)
The thing was too, Jane, that my, you know, what I was paying one person, I'm actually, I'm not spending any more money. Right. I've just divvied it up.

Divvied it up.

[Speaker 2] (46:49 - 46:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (46:50 - 46:55)
So it's not more, you know, it's not a greater cost to my practice. No. So, yeah.
[Speaker 2] (46:56 - 47:19)
So Alison, what would you say if someone was listening to you and they're going, OK, you know, I'm Alison 12 months ago. Perhaps I've written my book or maybe I'm at a stage where I've just about finished and I really want to get this practice to work. But maybe I'm scared of knitting or whatever that might be.

If they're where you are, what advice would you have for them if they were sitting there listening to you?

[Speaker 1] (47:21 - 47:44)
Yeah, look, I would probably say I understand the counter, how counterintuitive it is to want to be all things to all people. But you are so much harder to buy. Right.

So when you know where your expertise lies and who you serve, just go really hard on that and get everything lined up to be positioned there.

[Speaker 2] (47:44 - 47:44)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (47:45 - 48:12)
You may take a step backwards for a very for a minute or two, but it's what will propel you forward. Get the book done. I wish I had have got this book done.

It's not that I had the knowledge. I'd had this knowledge in my head for 20 years. So the knowledge was there.

It was just the time to dedicate to to writing it. And the other thing would be to build your list.

[Speaker 2] (48:12 - 48:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (48:12 - 49:04)
You know, at least build your list. You know, I look at the first two years and, you know, of course, there's some of those that I've added into my database. But there's so many people I just didn't feel comfortable to add them into my database years later.

So I've lost a lot of a lot of that, you know. So but that's just been something that I've really focused on. So they would be they the the key strategies, I think, that's that's really worked for me.

And what I want covered again, not in a million years. I'm based in Melbourne, so I would not want covered for a million years. But I've tried to really find this the silver lining, the shining lights out of COVID.

And what I'd say it's forced me to do is to not be lazy. And I don't mean lazy. I mean, I work hard.

So it's not lazy, but it's working on the right things. It's the discipline to get all the things in place. And COVID forced me to do that.

[Speaker 2] (49:04 - 49:07)
Yeah. Which that big one you talked about was consistency.

[Speaker 1] (49:08 - 49:08)
Correct.

[Speaker 2] (49:09 - 49:34)
Consistency in place. And that I love what you said before on the cadence of your routines and your meetings and that sort of stuff. Great.

Alison, you have been so generous today in sharing all your insights and learnings. You've had a massive year and going for global domination with the in the retail space. If people would like to reach out to you or connect with you, where would they be best to do that?

[Speaker 1] (49:35 - 49:52)
On LinkedIn, of course. Alison Crabb. My website is alisoncrabb.com.au and my email address is alison at alisoncrabb.com.au. So that should be fairly easy to to remember and to find.

[Speaker 2] (49:53 - 50:00)
Fantastic. Thank you so much for all your generous comments. We look forward to having you back and celebrating even more milestones with you.

Thanks.

[Speaker 1] (50:00 - 50:02)
I appreciate all your help, too.

[Speaker 2] (50:02 - 50:03)
My pleasure.