Episode 28- Digital Transformation with Dr. Emily Verstege

25 Jun

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In this episode, Dr. Emily and I look at personally branded businesses – making the transition to that from another business or previous company.

Dr. Emily Verstege is an expert on user experience and data analytics, author of how to build a digital revolution – It’s personal.

Helping businesses to be more humanised and on the forefront of digital data and making sure productivity is still there as technology happens fast and transformation doesn’t.

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Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

Jane Anderson introduces the Jane Anderson Brand New Show, a podcast aimed at helping experts increase their impact, influence, and income. She introduces the guest, Emily Vestige, an expert in user experience, data analytics, and business strategy. Emily is described as the author of "How to Build a Digital Revolution," emphasizing her focus on digital transformation and efficiency in business operations. Jane highlights Emily's extensive experience working with both public and private sector organizations, facilitating digital evolution and fostering meaningful connections between businesses and technology.
Emily expresses gratitude for the warm welcome and acknowledges the depth of her expertise, reflecting on her journey and the evolution of her self-perception.
Jane prompts Emily to elaborate on her business and the clients she serves. Emily explains her strategic role, focusing on driving efficient and meaningful digital transformations for businesses. She emphasizes the importance of strategy, user experience, and technology tools in achieving successful transformations. Emily's approach revolves around three key elements: truth (strategy), touch (user experience), and tools (technology).
Emily elaborates on her business philosophy, emphasizing the need for strategic alignment, user-centric design, and practical utilization of technology. She discusses her transition from academia to entrepreneurship, navigating the challenges of branding and self-promotion. Emily reflects on the perceptions surrounding academic credentials in business settings and the importance of balancing substance with self-confidence in thought leadership. She shares personal anecdotes to illustrate the evolution of her mindset and branding strategy.
Overall, this segment provides insights into Emily's professional background, her business approach, and the challenges she has faced in establishing her brand identity. Emily's emphasis on strategic thinking, user-centric design, and the human aspect of digital transformation offers valuable perspectives for businesses seeking to thrive in the digital age.
Jane discusses the benefits of Emily's transition to her personal brand, YourName.com. Emily highlights her challenge in establishing credibility and visibility after transitioning from working under a different brand for many years. She emphasizes the importance of building a personal brand to gain recognition and trust from potential clients. Emily reflects on the evolution of her self-confidence and authenticity in her branding efforts, acknowledging the role of mentors and personal growth in this process.
Emily elaborates on the advantages of personal branding, such as increased recognition and streamlined communication with potential clients. She shares anecdotes about how her personal brand has facilitated networking opportunities and streamlined client interactions. Despite initial apprehensions, Emily emphasizes embracing authenticity and self-expression in personal branding efforts.
Jane acknowledges Emily's unique blend of humor, warmth, and expertise, which enhances her personal brand's appeal and engagement. She commends Emily for her authenticity and advises listeners to embrace their unique personalities in their branding endeavours. Emily discusses her passion for mentoring individuals transitioning from academia to entrepreneurship, highlighting the importance of self-awareness and authenticity in personal branding.
Emily offers advice for individuals considering building their personal brands, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, preparation, and authenticity. She encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to start the branding process early and focus on clarifying their values and goals. Emily shares her plans for the next 12 to 18 months, including the launch of a new product called Unlocked, aimed at helping organizations leverage their data effectively. She explains the product's purpose and benefits, highlighting the significance of clean and actionable data for strategic decision-making.
The conversation concludes with Emily's reflection on the importance of data quality and her excitement about the upcoming product launch. Jane expresses admiration for Emily's courage and impact, applauding her journey from academia to entrepreneurship. Emily's insights underscore the significance of personal branding in professional success and the transformative power of leveraging one's expertise and authenticity in business endeavours.
In the concluding segment of the podcast, Jane asks Emily how listeners can get in touch with her. Emily shares her contact details, mentioning her professional title and upcoming website, dremilyverstage.com. Jane confirms the spelling of Emily's surname and expresses gratitude for Emily's insights and transparency throughout the interview.
Jane acknowledges the challenges and fears associated with transitioning to entrepreneurship, especially concerning financial responsibilities and family commitments. She commends Emily for inspiring others with her journey and expresses a desire to have her back on the show to discuss future adventures and achievements.
Emily thanks Jane for the opportunity and concludes the podcast with mutual appreciation. Their exchange underscores the importance of sharing personal experiences and insights to inspire and support others navigating similar career transitions. Emily's journey serves as a testament to the transformative power of embracing authenticity and seizing opportunities in professional endeavors.

Full Show Transcript:

[Speaker 2] (0:00 - 2:30)
My name's Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.
So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. So I want to welcome today our very special guest. She is an expert in user experience, data analytics.
She is a strategist and she is the author of How to Build a Digital Revolution. It's personal. So she works at the intersection of business and technology.
So she's had an incredibly deep experience in user research and public policy evaluation. And she works with really forward thinking public and private sector organisations and also the individuals within them. And she is on her mission to create digital evolutions so that businesses perform far more efficiently, far more effectively and are far more humanised.
Emily's clients includes departments like Department of Communities, Child Safety and Disability Services, Queensland Department of Premier and Cabinet, Blue Chip Communication and Parity Consulting. And because of this pace of our digitally transforming world, Emily is really one of those people who is a voice of reason. So she runs workshops to help her clients deliver innovative services to citizens and corporate stakeholders and making sure the productivity still works as well.
So she really challenges her clients to meaningfully reach out to people in more people in ways that engage them. So she's an in demand speaker. Her keynotes and workshops blend real world insight with contemporary research on user experience, open data and the dangers of implementing technology in a strategy vacuum.
And so welcome today, the amazing Emily Vestige.
[Speaker 1] (2:30 - 2:33)
Thank you. Two applause.
[Speaker 2] (2:33 - 2:49)
Thank you. We've got the crowd here in the background. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today and the brand new show.
You have just got so much depth to you and so I'm so excited to have you on the show today.
[Speaker 1] (2:50 - 3:02)
Thank you. It's nice to hear you say depth because until recently I thought it was a bit kind of manic and I would always like to have been able to say to people, yep, I'm a nurse. You know, wouldn't that be easy?
[Speaker 2] (3:03 - 3:22)
Yeah, yeah. You know, sometimes we don't always give ourselves the credit too, you know, because you've been doing something for such a long time. It just is such a core part of who you are and your identity that it's not till you consciously realise, oh, yeah, I do know a bit of stuff.
And then you're starting to articulate it. You realise, wow, yeah.
[Speaker 1] (3:23 - 3:25)
Yeah. It could be depth. Yeah.
[Speaker 2] (3:28 - 3:44)
So, Emily, I'd love for you to tell us a bit about the type of business that you have. And, you know, I talked a little bit about the people you help, but I'd love to know a bit more from you, how you help them and what do you do? And, yeah, the type of people you help and how do you help them?
[Speaker 1] (3:45 - 8:07)
Sure. Well, I think at my core I'm a strategist. Strategist.
I'm all about efficiency. I've just combined two words, strategist and an analyst. And I'm working with, as you said in your intro, I'm working with forward thinking businesses to help transform the business, like to shift it from analogue to digital.
And I'm really passionate about making sure that transformation happens in a meaningful and intelligent way because we know that you use one of my favourite phrases, the strategy vacuum. And I think that's one of the biggest issues that I'm facing at the moment with my clients or at least that they're facing and I'm working with them on is, you know, because as you said, digital does move so fast. I think there's this real kind of pressure for businesses to be going, oh, my God, we'll just buy this and whack it onto our business and then we'll be digitally transformed and we'll be sweet.
And I think, you know, technology happens fast, but transformation doesn't. And in many ways, that's a bit of a bugger because I think, you know, there can be a tendency to go, well, yeah, we'll just do this fast and like I said, get our problems, our digital problems solved. And my message is that it actually takes obsessive focus on three things.
It takes obsessive focus on truth, touch and tools. And the truth part is it takes focus on strategy. So you have to know where you're going in order to be able to get there.
And so I work with businesses and organisations to be able to say, what is your actual strategy? You know, what do you want your business to look like in five years? What goals do you want to be kicking in five years?
And then from that, let's work backwards and go, what's your business going to need to look like in order to be kicking those goals? And then and only then, OK, so maybe technology, how could we use technology in a way that will help you become more efficient or more engaging or more relevant to help you keep those goals? So that's the truth aspect.
And then there's also the touch aspect, which is people. And that's people inside organisations and people outside. So users of consumers, customers, clients, whatever you want to call them, other people who are driving this digital transformation, because, you know, you and I, you know, in our personal lives, like, right.
For example, this morning, I bought a pair of boots from the Iconic while I was waiting for my friend to join me to go for a run. And, you know, that website is amazing because it's so fast and it's available and my boots will be here tomorrow. And if they're crappy, I'll send them back and it won't cost me anything.
And so that's the level of that's a level of service that users expect. Like, I think the statistic is that if a website doesn't load within two to four seconds, then people just are bumped off it. And so that's so I come at the touch aspect from what users expect and working with organisations to build deeply engaging user experiences that are connected.
Right. I like to say that they're fast, frictionless, fearless. And so that's the external touch element.
But there's also the internal touch element as well. So how do you empower your people within your organisation to actually work in this really fast paced world, which is challenging? And, you know, some people love to be challenged and other people don't.
So digital transformation is actually organisational change as far as I'm concerned on the internal perspective. And then there's the tools element as well. And that's like you said before in your intro.
I like to call myself a little bit of a voice of reason because I hope that I impart on my clients this very real understanding that technology is just a tool. Data is just a tool. And it's, you know, it's only humans and maybe a few robots who actually know how to use these tools to affect, you know, the efficiency, the growth, the relevance piece.
So, yeah, broadly, it's truth, touch and tools that I work with people, organisations on and in a various number of ways. I run workshops and I do speaking, etc.
[Speaker 2] (8:08 - 8:21)
And that makes just so much sense. But, you know, for someone, you know, if they're not necessarily in that whole digital world and it just, you know, because you work with really big pieces of work that affect a lot of people.
[Speaker 1] (8:21 - 8:22)
Yeah.
[Speaker 2] (8:22 - 9:00)
And when you break it down to those three areas, the tools, the touch and the truth. Yeah, that just makes so much sense to me. And that just makes it so much easier to understand.
So you've made the move yourself and a bit of a starting to go through your own transformation. And, you know, that's kind of the nice thing. We had to go a little bit under the hood with people's businesses on the show.
So you've had your business as in DrEmilyVersage.com, which has been a more recent set up, but you've come from another business. Yeah.
[Speaker 1] (9:01 - 10:01)
Yeah, I've come from a couple of businesses, actually. So my journey to where I am now kind of started in research academia and then it went via the private sector to my own business. So I've worked for other people and I've worked for myself.
But even most recently when I've worked for myself, the two most recent instances of working for myself, I've been hidden underneath a brand. And it's only since kind of starting this kind of journey towards thought leadership practice that I have been brave enough. Let's face it, that's what it is, brave enough to put myself forward as Dr. Emily Burstitch. And even, you know, the decision to do that was finally starting to understand this positioning piece and also starting to understand, as you said, the depth that I do have and the experience that I bring. And yeah, so it's been a bit of an evolution.
[Speaker 2] (10:01 - 10:49)
And it's interesting, particularly, I think, from not just a branding perspective, but coming out of academia, because I do a little bit of work with academia and research institutes and things like that. And for those who have, you know, got doctor as part of their branding, if they're not necessarily in corporate sector, I think when I'm talking to them, sometimes they feel like I have to go and be the Dr. Carls of the world and, you know, be all over the media to really make that commercial shift. But it's not necessarily the case.
Do you find that? Sometimes when you're talking to people, you know, you've got a bit more connection, perhaps, with academia. Do you find that at all?
[Speaker 1] (10:50 - 13:36)
I guess I do and I don't. I mean, I think the doctor is kind of an automatic positioning piece, you know, just by virtue of what it is, because it's not something that everybody is or does. No.
And the way that it's viewed, I think, is very different in the corporate sector and in the research academia kind of sector. I mean, one of the things that I've really kind of learnt now having my own business that's branded as me is that you have to be a bit of a rock star and, you know, you have to be comfortable. And again, it's something you have to work towards and something that, you know, I'm sure you are still working on it.
And I know that very definitely I am working on is being comfortable with, you know, getting your Mick Jagger swagger on and being, you know, out there in the spotlight. That's not something that kind of comes overnight. And I remember when I was – I'd started my postdoc and I was going with some of my colleagues to an international conference.
And somebody said to me at the start of the day, you know, who are you going – what are you going to go and see today? And I said, oh, I'm going to go and see Dr. X, whoever it was. And this person was – their reaction just kind of shocked me.
And they said, oh, God, he's all hot air. And I was like, well, no, because he leads a really big, you know, cooperative research centre and he's got a ridiculous number of, you know, publications in science and nature. So, clearly, he's got a bit of substance to him.
And the more I thought – like, I still went to the presentation, but, you know, I felt quite deflated. And I think that reaction, as I analysed it more, is, in my opinion, can be quite common within research academia. And it's almost like the people who are up there on the stage and who have this gift of being eloquent and elegant and engaging when they're talking about their scientific research.
Of course, they're going to attract media attention because I would much rather listen to someone who can tell me a story than someone who's talking to me about statistics I don't understand. And even if the person on the stage is talking to me about statistics, I'm going to want to listen because they can do it in a way that engages me. And so, I think that there is almost, at least in my history, there was that real kind of bitterness and almost like, yeah, people were disparaging about rock stars because they had no substance.
And for me, that was a real kind of, you know, limiting belief that I had to move past in order to be able to use MyName.com and to add the doctor bit in there. So, if I'm going to stand up and talk about myself, then I actually, you know, it doesn't mean that I don't have any substance. Yes.
[Speaker 2] (13:36 - 14:28)
And I think too, you know, I mean, even now, like on the podcast, this is a very verbal thing. But, you know, for those who are listening, you have got to go to Emily's new website. By the time this goes to broadcast, it will be up.
But if you have a look at Emily and her, you know, all her visuals and just how she is in person, Emily is, I go, oh, she's such a rock star. And it's having that conviction. But also, so, you know, it's still the authenticity and it's not you saying, you know, I'm so good.
It's still having enough conviction that you go, I'm okay. I know what I'm talking about. But I can make it engaging for you and I can make it, you know, in a way that you'll understand it.
[Speaker 1] (14:28 - 14:28)
Yeah, totally.
[Speaker 2] (14:29 - 14:36)
So, what have been the benefits that you've noticed so far with having moved over to YourName.com?
[Speaker 1] (14:36 - 14:37)
People know me.
[Speaker 2] (14:38 - 14:38)
Yeah.
[Speaker 1] (14:40 - 16:05)
And, you know, one of the big struggles that I, yeah, one of the big struggles that I've had has been so for the past 10 years before I started my own business, I've been doing that for the last kind of couple of years. The 10 years prior to that, I was working as a consultant for a medium sized consulting firm based in New South Wales. And all my clients there were the business's clients.
And I suddenly realized when I went out on my own and I was putting myself forward, you know, on a tender panel and they were asking for referees. And I went, oh, crap, I don't actually have people who can vouch for my work. I have people who can vouch for work that I did while I was branded under somebody else's brand.
And I realized that I hadn't lost that experience that, you know, of course not. The 10 years worth of experience I hadn't been taken from me. But my positioning, I was starting from ground zero because I didn't have that brand behind me.
Right. And so the past couple of years has really been about, you know, stepping into my own, you know, rock stardom. Yes.
And putting myself forward. And people are starting to know me. It's not like they're asking me for autographs on the street.
But, you know, that'll come. It will. But, yeah, people know me or they say I've read something that you've written or, you know, yeah, I'm recognizable.
[Speaker 2] (16:05 - 16:34)
And so what does that actually mean? Because I, you know, I guess for me what I found is when you're recognized or you walk in a room or you attend a meeting, I find that the conversation moves a bit quicker. And I'm able to sort of get them to where they need to be.
But has that been something that you've noticed as a result of that shift over to your personal brand when you attend events or meetings or whatever it might be?
[Speaker 1] (16:35 - 17:54)
Yeah, it's starting to be. And one of the things that I really notice is that people already know a little bit about what I stand for. They know about how I work.
They know what I think on a range of topics. Because for me, one of my big lead generation tools is you'd be unsurprised, Jane, it's LinkedIn. And so people have already gone, yeah, yeah, I checked out your profile on LinkedIn and I know that you do this.
Like, for instance, yesterday I got engaged to be the emcee of a conference up here in Queensland. And the woman came to me and she said, oh, look, you're going to be perfect because you're blah, blah, blah, blah. I went, geez, how did you know that about me?
And she said, well, I just went to your LinkedIn profile, of course. And I think, you know, someone you and I both know, Jane Dermott Crowley, I remember him talking about when he wrote his first book. He said, all of a sudden I'm walking into meetings and people have got my book and it's highlighted and it's sticky notes.
And, you know, I basically, you know, I have one conversation instead of 10 conversations to get people across the line. Or, you know, it takes me 10 minutes instead of 10 hours to get people across the line because I already know what I stand for. And they know that that's that connects with them and they want a bit of that.
So I'm not there. I'm not there yet. But, yeah, that that traction is definitely starting to happen.
[Speaker 2] (17:55 - 18:03)
Yeah, fantastic. So were there any other particular challenges that you've faced making that shift over?
[Speaker 1] (18:05 - 19:01)
I think I really think that most of that is is believing. It sounds so fluffy, but, you know, believing that it was OK for me to be me. And I mean, there's a lot of security and safety that kind of comes from being attached to a brand.
And, you know, you look, you know, as multiplicity. I'm like, well, you know, I look like a business, don't I? If someone makes a mistake, it was multiplicity.
It wasn't me who made the mistake. So I think I think it's just I mean, it's a legitimate fear because I think, you know, it's not if you make. Yeah.
Like I said, if you make a mistake or if you kind of misrepresent yourself, it's not it's not a brand that can be kind of shelved and moved on to something else. It's you. It is the very essence of you that is being judged.
And and quite rightly so. So, yeah.
[Speaker 2] (19:01 - 20:19)
And I think one of the things that I love about you is that is just your realness. You know, like so when I look at what you do, which I go, that's just such a whole big world. I have no idea how that world works.
But what I love about you is that you've got this beautiful humor about you, this self-deprecating, funny warmth. Combine that with rock star. And I to me, that's it's you know, when I go, if I look, if I look at digital transformation and I look at who talks about digital transformation and who has the expertise in that, I go.
Yeah, I reckon I'd want to hear Emily's version of that because Emily will make it really interesting. I love what she is. She'll make it funny.
She'll help me understand it in a way that's in through the lens that Emily sees the world and the way that you make it different, you know, and in terms of like your personality is a really big part of who you are, particularly because it comes through in your writing. Is that something you also just had to because you're not behind that brand, a different brand now? It's Emily.
[Speaker 1] (20:19 - 20:19)
Yeah.
[Speaker 2] (20:19 - 20:26)
Was that something that you kind of had to get kind of used to was just even just getting used to you?
[Speaker 1] (20:26 - 21:54)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I it took me a really long time to actually start blogging.
I can remember one of my mentors, Janine Garner, saying to me, just start, just start, just write something. I was like, no, no, no. I don't feel like everything I write just feels it doesn't feel right.
It doesn't feel authentic. It doesn't feel like me. And I think that's because and I shared one of my original kind of blog posts with Janine and she came back.
She's going, this is not like an essay. I'm not going to go and check your references, Emily, you know, just step back a little bit. And she was right.
And I think, you know, my automatic tendency is to research the crap out of something. When I'm uncertain, I'm like, just do a bit more research. And, yeah, she kind of really shunted me forward with those comments.
But I think, yeah, just finding that authentic style came with that. As I keep saying, it's all this entire transition for me, positioning journey has been an evolution. And the more I got clear on what it was that I was passionate about and the more I got clear on what it was that I wanted to do.
And then and only then did the authenticity, I think, kind of come out in everything that I do.
[Speaker 2] (21:55 - 21:55)
Right.
[Speaker 1] (21:56 - 21:56)
Yeah.
[Speaker 2] (21:57 - 22:27)
It's just so inspiring to watch. And I think you're an inspiration too, particularly for people. I think because of the work I do with academia is that here's what this can look like.
If you're making that transition to that, you get to be your fully self-expressed, but you're not dumbing down your work. You're bringing it to life in a way that's relevant for your clients to understand it.
[Speaker 1] (22:28 - 23:31)
Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's a real area of passion of mine is mentoring, mentoring with women and men who are in that science, technology, engineering and math kind of disciplines, health.
And and who are either contemplating moving from academia into corporate or working for themselves. Right. And and also or, you know, sometimes even people who are contemplating staying where they are to identify their skills and how they can how they can position themselves, you know, if they stay in academia or equally to identify their skills as research academics.
And how, you know, the currency of those skills beyond research academia. And I think that's a really kind of interesting space. I love I love that because for me that I mean that that journey I've talked about it quite flippantly, but it was a real it hurt a lot to kind of make that that journey out of research and into the private sector.
So, yeah, it's another area of passion.
[Speaker 2] (23:31 - 23:43)
Wow. So just on that, then, if someone was considering doing that and building their business under their name dot com, what what advice would you have for them?
[Speaker 1] (23:44 - 24:14)
I think do it soon. You know, I look back and think, gee, I wish I wish I had. I wish I had done it sooner.
You know, I guess the flip side of that is you have to be ready for it. But, you know, so do the work, do the work, do the work on working out what you stand for and what it is that you want to do. Because as soon as you do that, then the authenticity piece comes and then you start going, you know what?
I don't give a rat. I'm just going to do it.
[Speaker 2] (24:17 - 24:42)
And I think that's great advice. And it's wonderful to hear from you who has made that that jump. So it's very courageous and a very brave and bold thing to do.
And the work that you've done through academia has a huge impact on the planet. And now you get to make that ripple out there. So tell us, what are your plans for the next 12 to 18 months?
[Speaker 1] (24:42 - 26:04)
Well, I'm pretty excited. It's like kind of lots of things on the boil. But I'm about to release a new product in the next quarter called Unlocked.
And that's for people who are kind of drowning, not waving with the amount of data that they've got. I mean, in my conversations with people as I've been talking about digital transformation, I realise that, you know, just by breathing in this world, right, we create data. I think it's five exabytes of data that's generated every day.
Really? Which is one billion billion bytes if you're not down with your byte hierarchies. It's basically a shared load of data.
And what I'm finding and what the people I'm working with are finding is that actually much of that data is meaningless or it's, you know, it's inaccessible or it's incomplete. And that's a real shame and a loss to the organisation because that's value that's locked up and value that you're not being able to extract within your organisation. So, this product is perfect for people who feel like they should be able to answer, you know, questions that their board's asking but can't or, you know, they feel like they get a really good sense of, you know, what their clients want, but they haven't got the data to back it up.
[Speaker 2] (26:04 - 26:05)
Right.
[Speaker 1] (26:05 - 26:26)
So, yeah, this product is about helping people map the existing data or perhaps the data gaps, identifying issues with data and a plan to move forward and remedy that so that they can, you know, support their business's overall strategic direction through clean, lovely data.
[Speaker 2] (26:26 - 26:28)
Clean, lovely data.
[Speaker 1] (26:30 - 26:40)
My PhD supervisor used to say to me, Emily, happiness is a big, clean data set. He was right about a lot of things. But, yeah.
[Speaker 2] (26:42 - 26:57)
And so, if people want to work with you on that or find out more about you and you've got your book coming out shortly, you're just on fire and you've got so much stuff coming. If people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that?
[Speaker 1] (26:59 - 27:17)
Leading, Dr. Emily Verstage, and also, as you said, by the time this podcast goes live, we'll have to make sure we release an advanced version of this to my website design crew. But by the time this podcast goes live, I will have a website branded as dremilyverstage.com.
[Speaker 2] (27:17 - 27:23)
Great. And we spell your surname V-E-R-S-T-E-G-E, yes?
[Speaker 1] (27:23 - 27:23)
Yeah, you do.
[Speaker 2] (27:24 - 27:51)
Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
It's been such a pleasure to have you. So gracious of you to allow us to kind of go under the hood a bit and understand a little bit about the transition that you've made. There's lots of people out there who want to make that move and there's a lot of fear and accountability that comes with all that and mortgages and all those things.
Got kids in certain schools.
[Speaker 1] (27:51 - 27:52)
Got one of them, yep.
[Speaker 2] (27:53 - 28:17)
So, it's been wonderful to have you because your perspective is unique and there are people out there who are, you know, you certainly have created inspiration for people who are listening going, well, if she can do that, I can do that. So, thank you so much for your time and we might have you back and hear about the adventures that you've got happening in the future. Yes, totally.
All right. Thanks, Emily.
[Speaker 1] (28:17 - 28:18)
Thanks, Jane.