Episode 24- Sticky Content with Kath Walters

25 June

Podcast is also available on the versions below:

Get Notified Of Future Episodes on Apple Podcasts | Spotify

In this episode I speak with a fantastic guest who has been a business journalist, she's reached an audience of over 20 million people with an estimated 1.4 million words in her time, so she knows what it takes to produce high quality, sticky content.

Kath Walters has written for some of Australia's leading business publications including the BRW, The Financial Review, Smart Company, Boss, Crikey and Business Spectator. She's been responsible for producing great content that helps get customers excited on a regular basis and says "It's not just easy, it is really possible." How many of us procrastinate on that?

Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

Jane Anderson kicks off her podcast, the Jane Anderson Brand New Show, focusing on personal branding for experts aiming to enhance their impact, influence, and income. She emphasizes the importance of personal connections in business and introduces her guest, Kath Walters, an experienced business journalist. Kath has extensive experience writing for major Australian business publications and now operates under KathWalters.com, helping individuals and businesses build their brands through sticky content.
Kath explains her transition from journalism to content marketing, highlighting her focus on assisting thought leaders in publishing valuable content to build their brand and audience. She defines "sticky content" as content that resonates deeply with audiences and shares her approach to helping clients achieve this. Kath operates under her personal brand, KathWalters.com, leveraging her expertise to assist clients in building their brands through compelling storytelling and audience engagement.
Kath elaborates on the concept of sticky content, drawing inspiration from Chip Heath and Dan Heath's book "Made to Stick." She explains the importance of relevance in content creation and emphasizes building an audience first to establish a successful business model. Kath encourages clients to focus on depth in their content and expands on the various forms content can take beyond traditional blogging, including interviews, news reporting, and event coverage.
Discussing the broader implications of content marketing, Kath underscores the role of content in building credibility and trust with audiences over time. She encourages clients to leverage their content across various platforms, including books and traditional media, to expand their reach and influence. Kath emphasizes the need for consistency and reliability in content creation to establish trust and credibility with audiences, ultimately driving business growth.
Addressing the challenge of measuring the effectiveness of content marketing, Kath highlights the value of social media feedback in gauging audience engagement. She emphasizes the role of quality content in fostering meaningful interactions on social media platforms and outlines indicators of successful content, including audience engagement and feedback. Kath stresses the importance of consistency and quality in content creation to maximize its impact on audience perception and business outcomes.
Kath and Jane delve into the importance of engaging with audiences on social media platforms like LinkedIn. They emphasize the value of interacting with individuals who like or comment on posts, fostering real conversations beyond the virtual realm. Their goal is to transition online interactions into face-to-face conversations, emphasizing the gradual process of relationship-building. Kath stresses the role of content and social media in breaking down barriers between businesses and potential clients, facilitating meaningful discussions about clients' needs and interests.
They discuss the reluctance many individuals feel towards content creation, attributing it to fear of judgment, uncertainty about what to write, and concerns about appearing knowledgeable. Kath addresses these concerns by highlighting the importance of vulnerability in publishing and sharing personal stories of her own apprehensions as a writer. She offers support and guidance to clients, encouraging them to embrace their vulnerability and providing feedback to ease their fears. Kath emphasizes the principles of good content creation, focusing on relevance to readers and the power of storytelling to engage audiences effectively.
Kath and Jane emphasize the value of sharing relevant content from diverse sources, even if it means occasionally sharing conflicting viewpoints. They discuss the benefits of curating content to serve the audience's interests and foster community engagement. Kath shares her ambitious book project, "The Future Makers," aimed at showcasing Australia's thought leadership in digital technology. She highlights the role of books in establishing authority and invites listeners to connect with her to explore collaboration opportunities or seek assistance with their content and publishing endeavors.
Jane concludes the conversation by summarizing key takeaways from Kath's insights, emphasizing the importance of sticky content, audience engagement, and personal branding. She encourages listeners to share their thoughts and connect on LinkedIn to foster a community of like-minded individuals engaged in content creation and personal branding. Jane expresses gratitude to Kath for her valuable contributions and invites listeners to continue the conversation and support each other in their content creation journeys.
Kath expresses gratitude to Jane for the opportunity to share her insights and expertise. She appreciates the platform to discuss the significance of content creation and personal branding in shaping the future landscape. Jane reciprocates the appreciation and extends well wishes to the audience for the remainder of the week, concluding the podcast episode on a positive note.

Full Show Transcript:

My name is Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.
So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. So welcome to the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. I'm so glad you made it along today.
Today I'm talking all things personal branding as you know and today I have a fantastic guest to share with you. But as you know, we talk personal branding, all things brand new because people buy from people and they buy from people who they know, who they like and who they trust. So the Brand New Show is all about for those people who are thinking about perhaps going out on their own as a solopreneur, a thought leader, an expert in their field.
You could be a researcher academic within a university or you could be even an entrepreneur within your organisation and trying to position yourself in your industry or perhaps you're a thought leader in your own right and you're working under YourName.com. So today's guest, I'm so excited to be able to share with you today. Today's guest has been a business journalist.
She's reached an audience of over 20 million people with an estimated 1.4 million words in her time. So she knows what it takes to produce high quality sticky content. For over 16 years, she's written for some of Australia's leading business publications including the BRW, the Financial Review, Leading Company, Smart Company, Boss, Crikey and Business Spectator.
So she really knows her stuff and particularly around that big corporate audience. She's been responsible for producing great content that helps get customers excited on a regular basis and she says it's not just easy but it is really possible. So how many of us procrastinate on that?
So welcome today, the amazing and talented Kath Walters.
Thank you, Joanne. That's very kind.

Thanks so much for that introduction. Thank you for coming along. I know how busy you are.

You work with some of Australia's leading thought leaders now but you also, you know, in the past you've worked with so many with these publications, your background in journalism, PR, all that side of things. But I don't want to take it away from you. Can you just tell us a bit about the type of business you have?

You operate under KathWalters.com so we get to learn a bit about your business but also you help personally branded businesses too. So tell us a bit about your business and who you help and how do you help them?

[Speaker 1] (3:13 - 4:33)
Fantastic. Thanks, Joanne. I, as you mentioned, I was a journalist for 16 years and a few years ago, about three, I set up a practice.

Starting to look at the whole idea of content marketing and how we can publish, you know, in these days of the internet and a sort of democratised media, how we can publish to build our own audience and our own brand. So I think a brand is made more valuable by the stories that it tells and the audience that it builds. So that's really what I help companies do.

I help, as you say, I help a range of people who are running thought leadership practices typically who have great ideas, who've often worked for many years in really challenging roles and have really emerged with a whole palette or a suite of really valuable ideas and approaches that they share with their clients. My goal is to help them to learn how to publish those ideas in such a way as to really build an audience. And so I call that kind of publishing sticky content.

[Speaker 2] (4:34 - 4:39)
And how did you come up with that term sticky content? I love it.

[Speaker 1] (4:39 - 5:39)
Yeah, it's a beauty. Look, there's a very famous book about the idea of what content really, what ideas stay with us, and it's called Made to Stick by Chip Heath and Dan Heath. And so I guess initially I have to admit I actually called it magnetic content, which I also loved.

But somebody started a business called Magnetic Content, so I decided to move on. And sticky content I liked even more, especially because of its reference to this, which is really one of the best sellers in the market, around what ideas survive and what ones die. So I want people's ideas to survive and thrive and spread all over the world and attract a readership and an audience, which is that whole idea of sticking.

[Speaker 2] (5:40 - 5:53)
And, Cath, you know, you've got kind of that sort of your message around having sticky content but you still operate your business yourself under CathWalters.com. Is that right?

[Speaker 1] (5:53 - 6:52)
That's right. I mean, sticky content is really just a metaphor. And that's why I wasn't too concerned really to let go one metaphor for another to me.

You know, it's a lovely metaphor, but I'm always capable of thinking up a new metaphor. My business is built around my expertise. And one of the things that I think journalists learn in their profession is how to tell a story that builds an audience.

I mean, that's what the media game is, building audiences. It's in somewhat of a sort of state of flux at the moment in terms of its business model. But traditional media is the same as has always been the same, audience first and then a business model.

And that's really one of my key messages, build your audience first and then you'll find ways to build your business from that audience. Right.

[Speaker 2] (6:53 - 7:19)
And, Cath, have you found in your work with working with people, I mean, you've just had so much experience, have you found that the value of being able to build an audience, I know for me in one of the earlier podcasts I talk a bit about when my business changed over to YourName.com, the audience was easier to build through that content. With the clients you work with, has that been your experience?

[Speaker 1] (7:20 - 8:44)
My experience really is that we've got to, we need to focus our business around our name because it's the kind of approach that we have to providing services and products that people buy. So the modern world, everything's very commoditised and we don't want to play in that space. What we're doing really is building a brand around our name.

But the only way to effectively do that is to have really good ideas. You know, sticky content, it's two words that describe a very deep idea around that starts with making content relevant. So it starts with the whole idea of putting readers first.

And, you know, there are, you know, that goes into, that's part of a model around three elements of which relevance is the first. And within each of those three, you know, there's more depth and more depth. So I think when we have a depth of ideas and we have those, we associate those with our names, it's very, very powerful as a branding, as a mechanism for branding.

And that's what I try to help my clients to do, is to really build their content for readers and build a great deal of depth.

[Speaker 2] (8:44 - 9:05)
And, Kat, with that work that you do, do you, is that, like I think about when I think about content or when I'm talking to people, quite often they think about just blogging or their social media. Are there other things that you find work well with how you leverage that content too? Absolutely.

[Speaker 1] (9:05 - 9:18)
And I think it's, I do encourage my clients to think broadly about content. For one thing, I encourage them to think about writing books because they're so powerful as a positioning tool.

[Speaker 2] (9:18 - 9:18)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (9:18 - 9:29)
Using those books to create their blogging and content marketing and using their book and content marketing to actually attract traditional media coverage.

[Speaker 2] (9:30 - 9:30)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (9:30 - 10:38)
So there's those three elements. But also to broaden out our notion of what a blog is. You know, a blog, okay, it can be an opinion piece or it can be what you're doing here, an interview with someone who's working in your, within your broad field, who's got an interest in your interests.

I do that a lot. I interview other people. I write, I wrote about the company that took my name, Magnetic Content.

Oh, right. I put them on my website. I write about lots of, they didn't take my name, by the way.

They had that name and, you know, we just had both come up with the same name. But, you know, I thought it was great, you know, an interview with my doppelganger. And, you know, I also report on news and surveys about content marketing.

I write about events. So if we think about it, there's a lot of different forms of content. And you only really have to go to your, you know, your newspaper, they do still survive, to find a list, you know, crosswords of contents, quizzes or diagnostics of content.

[Speaker 2] (10:39 - 10:39)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (10:40 - 10:56)
News, events, you know, digests, shorts, snapshots, profiles. There's so much. There's a lot of, you know, there's a great deal of richness, and I think we could all benefit if content marketing became somewhat richer.

[Speaker 2] (10:57 - 11:42)
Right. And, Kath, I don't know if you've found this, like, what do you say to people who, you know, like, with the whole brand YourName.com, I find that quite often people feel like, you know, I'll set up MyName.com and then, you know, then I don't have to do much else. But if they're not writing content, you know, things are, or they're not putting together content like you said, whether it's interviews or writing or whatever it might be, you know, your business doesn't just, you know, you don't just set it up and it looks after itself.

You have to do the work. But what do you, how, like, what's the impact if somebody isn't writing content or putting together content? What happens?

[Speaker 1] (11:43 - 13:14)
Yeah, look, I think there's a couple of really important points there. I mean, the first one is straight out that Google rules our world, you know. They have developed algorithms to, with the SEO formulas, and what Google prefers, and I have to say I agree, they prefer to have quality unique content and, you know, that's well researched.

So if we're not blogging and putting out quality content, we are just not going to rank very highly. I mean, there's other ways of getting it, but it's one very important way. The other thing is that when we blog, we build credibility over time.

So I can claim to know a lot about content marketing, but if you go to my website and see that I've written over 120 blogs on the subject of content marketing, I don't have to claim it. I can show you that I've, so it's that show, don't tell approach to really building trust with our audience. So the second part of my content model after relevance is reliable, is this idea of being reliable.

People want to do work, and you mentioned it right at the start, with people that they trust. And one of the ways we build up that trust is by delivering reliable content to them regularly over a long period of time.

[Speaker 2] (13:14 - 13:42)
Right. And how do you know, like, because if they're doing that work, and it's just that real consistency and keeping it going, isn't it, how do you know if you're working under yourname.com, you're blogging, how do you know it's working well for you other than, you know, possibly sales, and sometimes you don't know, it's hard to always make that link. But how do you know if your blog's working really well for you?

[Speaker 1] (13:43 - 16:22)
Yeah, well, that is one of the beauties of modern, the modern media. I mean, in my 16 years in print media, really, your chances of getting any reader feedback, I mean, you could be going out to, you know, over 16 years and, you know, added up to 20 million views, if you like. How often out of that would I end up with somebody actually ringing me up or sending me a letter?

Very, very rarely. And usually I need to complain. So what we get now is a response, you know, and I think that this is the great value of social media.

So when we have a really solid content, both curated content, so I strongly believe, as you do, in sharing other people's ideas, and also our own original, well-done, you know, accurate, reliable, regular content, we have something that makes social media meaningful. Good content makes it meaningful. You know, you're really doing something to help contribute.

And what you tend to get is a response. So people either, you know, they might retweet, which is really cool, or they might simply follow you, or they might make a comment or like on LinkedIn. And I have to say, you know, on LinkedIn, it's very consistent with the personal brand, LinkedIn, because it's about you, your posts.

And you get, when someone likes or comments on your piece, you can actually see who they are and hopefully either connect with them, if you haven't already, or actually sort of respond and say thanks, and, you know, I really appreciate your comment. And, you know, it's great. So you actually have this real conversation going on, because I guess in the end our goal is to move out of the virtual world.

Yes. I love it. But what we're doing is trying to get in front of people face to face to have a real conversation.

Yes. And what I believe is that that takes time. We just don't rush.

None of us do into those things until we feel that it's going to be worth our while. And we feel that we've got something to say, you know. So all these things inhibit us from making content.

The idea of our content and our social media is to start to slowly take away the barriers between us and potential customers and clients and say let's have a conversation about you, about what you need and what you want.

[Speaker 2] (16:23 - 16:59)
Right. And being able to have that freedom of expression or being able to capture that, you know, I think is so powerful, yet, you know, so many I think the data I've shared is only about 1% of people on LinkedIn do it because they're so scared of, and you would see this all the time I imagine, where people they don't know what to write or they're scared of what people will think or that they're worried that I'm going to look like a know-all or, you know, so I just kind of go, you know what, I think I'll just do nothing. But then nothing happens.

[Speaker 1] (17:00 - 19:39)
Worse than nothing happening really is that somebody steps into our space. So when we leave a clear space, other people will step into it and it's much harder to be catching up. Now, if, you know, if someone, what happens after three years of blogging on content marketing is that in a sense I've kind of put a stake in the sand that's saying, look, in 2013 I was blogging about content marketing.

I've been following this, you know, this whole process, this whole sector as it develops. And the evidence is there. So that's one really nice thing.

But what I do find is that people feel quite vulnerable naked really. They feel naked about publishing. And I totally understand that.

It's just that, you know, I have, I can remember. I can remember the excitement and the terror of my first stories coming out. And that's really part of what I offer in my service is to be the first person to read my client's stories.

There's whole systems for that in the publishing industry. You have a whole sequence of people who do read your stories, your editor, your sub-editor. All these people read it before it goes out.

So in the democratised media where we're all publishers, I perform that role for my clients and I advise them when they finish with me, when our mentoring program is done, to actually employ someone to do that. It's just simply employ somebody to read and make sure that you can trust that person to say, well, that doesn't make sense or, you know, you've made a mistake. It's so easy to make a mistake.

Yes. The other thing I do, though, is just teach people the principles of good content. You know, like I said, there's those three elements.

But the key thing is to write about stuff your readers care about. Right. So if we actually focus on our readers and we're writing about what they care about and we're not trying to big note ourselves, they're very forgiving, you know.

Yes. You know, they don't forgive boring, but they forgive, you know, they forgive a lot of stuff. But they don't, you know, I mean, we haven't got time to forgive boring.

So I do help people a lot with trying to make things exciting. But relevance, you know, so writing for your reader, writing something relevant, that is going to – you're going to be forgiven.

[Speaker 2] (19:39 - 19:39)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (19:40 - 20:03)
The example I give is, you know, if you get an email from your client or if you're in work from your boss, it doesn't matter how boring it is, you're going to read it, aren't you? Because it's highly relevant. That's right.

So if we get relevance right, we can really – we'll find that our audience forgives us while we develop ourselves into absolutely fabulous writers.

[Speaker 2] (20:04 - 20:32)
Wow, that's great. I think that that's a really memorable thing too. I think what you've just said is really sticky for me because I remember when I first started, I think I was so scared of being boring and that was what was holding me back.

So I think if you're, you know, helping clients with that is just so powerful and that relevance and being able to make sure that that relevance is there that people are forgiving. And I think you're absolutely spot on. I hadn't thought about it that way.

[Speaker 1] (20:33 - 21:03)
Yeah, it's really powerful. And, you know, I think the other thing that you've talked to me, we've talked about before, is that you can also just start by sharing other people's stuff. Yes.

You can build a lot of relationship with a community by being a generous curator. Yes. And when we do that, we read a lot of stuff that we find interesting and our ideas start to form and then we've got something to say.

[Speaker 2] (21:03 - 21:04)
Yeah.
[Speaker 1] (21:04 - 21:10)
So, yeah, and again, that's relevance. What's relevant to your readers? What's relevance you can share from other people?

[Speaker 2] (21:11 - 21:32)
Yeah. There's so much out there. I think last year $118 billion was spent in content marketing and this year there's due to be $135 billion spent.

So there's a lot of noise out there but the more that you can make it relevant but also you don't have to go unnecessarily, even to get started, you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

[Speaker 1] (21:32 - 21:32)
You don't.

[Speaker 2] (21:32 - 21:41)
Just look at what's out there and just act in service of your audience. They're actually not paying that much attention to you if you act in service of them.

[Speaker 1] (21:41 - 22:30)
It is true. It's true they're not paying attention until we make a mistake. Then they pay a lot of attention.

Yeah. No, look, out of $118 billion worth of content, there's got to be something relevant to our audience that we can share. I'm sure there are many great sites in my field in content marketing.

There are some excellent sites. I love sharing other people's ideas. Sometimes I share ideas that I really disagree with.

I say, I really don't agree with this idea. But it's a really well put argument. So what do you think?

That to me is service. That is where I'm being service to my readership. I'm worrying more about relevance to them than sort of any outcome for myself because I trust the outcome.

[Speaker 2] (22:30 - 23:19)
Yes, and I find that too. There's a lady on LinkedIn, and I share quite a bit of her stuff. Now, she's a competitor.

She's in the U.S., but I really like what she has to say. I think, oh, she's written something that's really relevant for my audience, and I hadn't thought about it that way, and she's absolutely right. Do I need to go and write the blog on it?

No, but I'm more than happy to share, and I acknowledge her. She often likes my posts and says thanks for sharing, and she'll share something of mine. You know, I think just in this world of abundance, when you come in that scarcity mindset but come more from being in service of others, then that's what you're talking about, that audience starting to build around you, and then you sort of elevate.

It's more about elevating them and their thinking, isn't it?

[Speaker 1] (23:19 - 23:57)
I think so because, you know, what can happen then is if you have a lot about which you agree and then you're, you know, this person that you're curating shares something that you don't agree and you say, look, you know, I often share, you know, this person's work, but this time I don't agree with them. Within that context of all that generosity and community, it's very possible for that kind of dialogue to happen in a constructive way, and that is really serving an audience too, I reckon, to give, you know, a depth of ideas.

[Speaker 2] (23:58 - 24:11)
Yes. Yeah. You've had so much experience with this, Kath.

So what are your plans for the next 12 to 18 months? What's on the horizon for you?

[Speaker 1] (24:12 - 25:48)
I've got this really exciting book project that I'm working on called The Future Makers, and this is a long-term vision for me. So the first – I'm currently pulling together the first book in this series, and it's called The Future Makers in Digital Technology. And I am inviting 10 leading thinkers in the field of digital technology to contribute to this book, and then we will jointly publish it.

So it's a – if you like, it's a joint self-publishing project. And I see, you know, this is a fantastic opportunity to sort of build a series of books that are really showcasing Australia's thought leadership and our innovation and our, you know, our sort of sassy thinking and our – you know, it's very exciting to me. Wow.

Yeah, I really love getting out and talking to people who – even people for whom this is not the right time, for example, to contribute are all very excited about reading the book. And so, yeah, so as well as contributors, I really hope to build a big group of audience of readers for these ideas because I think these ideas are really groundbreaking ideas. So, yeah, that's one of my most exciting projects.

And, you know, I'm very interested in the moment in books. I help people to write and publish their books because books are so incredibly helpful to us in terms of establishing our authority.

[Speaker 2] (25:49 - 25:49)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (25:49 - 25:51)
So as authors we build authority.

[Speaker 2] (25:51 - 26:07)
And so, Kath, if we – those that are out there listening and they want to get in touch with you or find out how you can help them with their book or their content plans and blogs or contribute to the book, what's the best way to get in touch with you?

[Speaker 1] (26:08 - 26:42)
Look, please come – or please just email me on Kath with a K at kathwalters.com.au. Give me a call. My phone number's actually on my LinkedIn page and, you know, connect up with me or just go to my website and send me a message from there. Yeah, really welcome.

I love to talk to people about what they're doing and see if there's ways that I can help. But, of course, I'm in a community of fabulous people, so sometimes, yeah, I can simply say, look, you better talk to Jane Anderson.

[Speaker 2] (26:43 - 28:30)
And vice versa. Oops, that's the person for you. Yep.

All right. Oh, that's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Kath.

You've been so generous in sharing your thoughts and advice. So for those who have been listening, I think some big takeaways from Kath really today about I love Kath's sticky content message and that people are buying your approach and they're buying that, you know, that lens that they're seeing you, the way that you see the world through and how you build your audience. And from that audience is where you will build that pool of people who want to work with you because we talk about that factor of people wanting to get to know you.

They like you and they trust you, particularly because your content, your blogs and your writing or if you're thinking about building or creating your book is really that positioning for you as an authority. So if you have any comments, thoughts, I'm going to pop the podcast up and I do share it on LinkedIn as well. So I'd love to hear your thoughts and if today's been helpful for you.

And, of course, what would be even more awesome is when I put it up on LinkedIn, if you connect, is even if you want to share your blogs, we'd love to know what you're writing and, you know, that creates a community of people who are doing this type of work and we get to know what everyone's up to so we can help each other. So I'd love to hear how you're going. So thank you so much again, Kath, today.

Your message really is fantastic and I love your future makers idea too. I think that this is the future, the content is the future. So thank you for making yourself available.

And to everybody else, have a fantastic rest of your week.

[Speaker 1] (28:30 - 28:33)
Thanks, Jane. Thanks for the opportunity.