Episode 90- How Psychological Safety Shapes Team Decision-Making: Samantha Rush
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Most leaders believe they're good at making decisions. The truth is, most of us don't actually know how good we are, because the majority of our decision-making happens unconsciously, on autopilot, without us ever examining it.
That's the starting point for decision-making expert and PhD researcher Samantha Rush, who joined The Jane Anderson Show to unpack why teams so often make worse decisions than the individuals in them, and what psychological safety has to do with it.
Rush isn't a theorist observing from the outside. She spent years working inside big-four consulting environments before building her own advisory practice, and she's now completing a PhD researching when and why teams accept structured decision-making techniques over instinct. Her research has been presented at the Society for Personality and Social Psychology (SPSP) conference, the world's largest organisation of personality and social psychologists.
This article draws on her conversation on the show to explain what psychological safety actually is, why groupthink happens even in rooms full of smart people, and what leaders, and consultants running their own practices, can do about it.
Who Is Samantha Rush?
Rush's path into decision-making research wasn't linear, but it was consistent. She built a career across intelligence and corporate executive roles, and has worked as a company director, business advisor, and strategic consultant across a range of sectors and industries.
Her academic background reinforces that breadth: an MBA, an honours degree in psychology, and a background in industrial relations, alongside the PhD she's currently completing on decision-making. She's also a recognised fellow of several professional associations in her field.
What stands out in her account of building a consulting practice is a fairly simple trigger: dissatisfaction with the quality of work she'd seen delivered by others. Having sat on the client side of big-four consulting engagements, she describes not being impressed by generic, copy-pasted deliverables that didn't match the price paid for them. That gap between what was promised and what was delivered is part of what pushed her toward building her own advisory practice, one built around bespoke, evidence-based work rather than recycled templates.
What Is Psychological Safety?
Psychological safety is the shared belief within a team that it's safe to speak up, to share a dissenting opinion, ask a question, or admit a mistake; without fear of embarrassment or punishment.
The term was coined by Harvard Business School's Amy Edmondson, and Harvard Business Review's own explainer is a useful primer if you want the academic grounding behind it.
It's not the same as being liked, and it's not about avoiding conflict. It's about whether people feel able to contribute their honest perspective, especially when that perspective goes against the room.
Rush frames it as everyone's responsibility, but notes leaders carry a disproportionate share of it. They set the tone for whether disagreement is welcomed or quietly punished.
Why Teams Make Bad Decisions
The Scale of Daily Decision-Making
Rush points out that we make an enormous number of decisions every day: a widely cited (if debated) estimate puts the figure at around 35,000, with a large share of those relating to something as mundane as food. That food-decision figure traces back to Cornell University research showing people underestimate how many food-related choices they make by more than tenfold. Whatever the precise total figure, the underlying point holds up: most of our decisions are made unconsciously, which means most of us have very little visibility into our own decision-making patterns.
That matters because when you scale unconscious, unexamined decision-making from one person up to a team, a division, and then an entire organisation, the risk compounds. Rush describes the organisation itself as often being compared to a brain: full of decisions being made constantly, with very little clarity about who's making them or whether they're the right ones.
Groupthink and the Fear of Standing Out
The biggest single risk Rush identifies in team settings is groupthink, a dynamic where the loudest voices in the room dominate and no one challenges the direction, even when they privately disagree.
She explains the psychology behind it plainly: many people stay quiet not because they lack a view, but because sharing a dissenting opinion feels risky. As Rush put it, it often comes down to not wanting to be "thrown out of the tribe", an instinct rooted in belonging and survival rather than reasoned judgment.
That instinct made sense for most of human history. It's a poor guide for making good business decisions today.
The Cost of a Missing Perspective
This becomes especially dangerous in cross-functional teams. Rush gives the example of a senior leadership or project team that includes people with legal, HR, or other specialist backgrounds. If the person with the critical legal perspective doesn't speak up, because they don't feel safe to, or because the group dynamic discourages it, that missing input can be the difference between a good outcome and a costly mistake.
When Structured Decision-Making Tools Actually Help
This is the core question behind Rush's PhD research: in what contexts are people more likely to accept using a structured decision-making technique instead of relying on instinct?
Her research looks at several variables that appear to influence this, including:
The type and consequence of the decision: low-stakes, everyday choices don't need a formal process; high-stakes ones often do
The makeup of the team: different personalities and backgrounds respond differently to structure
How the team is interacting: face-to-face versus virtual settings appear to change what feels acceptable
Psychological safety levels within the group
Structured techniques have already been shown, more broadly, to reduce problems like groupthink and what's sometimes called the common knowledge effect, where teams over-rely on information everyone already shares and under-use the unique expertise individual members bring. What Rush's research adds is a clearer picture of when those techniques are actually welcomed rather than resisted because, as she notes, most people believe they're capable of deciding well on their own, even when the evidence suggests otherwise.
The Layers of Decision-Making in an Organisation
Rush describes decision-making as operating in layers:
Individual: personal biases, instincts, and blind spots
Team: the dynamics that emerge once a handful of people are in a room together
Divisional
Organisational: where all of the above compounds
Each layer inherits the unexamined patterns of the one below it. A leader who never questions their own instinctive decisions will struggle to build a team that does. A team that never surfaces dissenting views will struggle to build an organisation that does.
Applying These Lessons to Your Own Consulting Practice
The conversation didn't stay purely academic. Rush also spoke candidly about applying the same principles: structure, awareness, reduced cognitive load, to running her own advisory practice.
Why Business Development Feels So Hard
Asked what she personally struggles with, Rush didn't hesitate: business development. Not because she dislikes talking to people, but because of a mix of factors: fear of rejection, not wanting to feel "salesy," and, candidly, sometimes just getting bored repeating the same pitch. Her strategy is to keep finding new angles rather than pushing through on willpower alone.
It's a useful reminder that even experts in decision-making and psychology aren't immune to the same avoidance patterns everyone else experiences.
Using Routine to Reduce Decision Fatigue
Rush's practical advice for consultants and thought leaders centres on one idea: remove decisions you don't need to keep making.
She recommends building routine and rhythm into recurring tasks, a newsletter that goes out on the same day every week, for example, so that the when is no longer a daily decision. She also described a simple but effective method: writing down, visibly, the categories of requests or opportunities she's decided to say no to for the year, so that when they come up, there's no fresh decision to make each time.
The logic connects directly back to her research: the fewer decisions you have to consciously make, the more mental capacity you have for the ones that actually matter.
The Case for Delegating Early
Rush credited much of her own capacity to focus on higher-value work to bringing on a dedicated assistant early, within her practice's first year, moving from part-time to full-time support once the value was clear. Having someone who understands how you work, she noted, compounds over time: tasks that once took detailed instructions can eventually be handed off with far less oversight.
This mirrors a broader pattern common among growing consulting and advisory practices: the earlier structural support is introduced, the sooner an owner's time is freed up for the strategic work only they can do. Fellow guest Susanne Le Boutillier made a similar point about outsourcing specific tasks to freelancers based on project needs in her own episode of the show.
Learning From Peers, Not Just Working Alone
Rush also pointed to something less structural and more relational: having a community of peers doing similar work. Being able to raise a challenge with other practice owners rather than letting it circle endlessly in her own head was, in her words, invaluable. It's a reminder that decision-making isn't only an internal or organisational exercise; sometimes the fastest way to a better decision is simply asking someone who's faced the same one before.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is psychological safety in the workplace?
Psychological safety is the shared belief among a team that it's safe to take interpersonal risks: speaking up, disagreeing, or admitting a mistake, without fear of embarrassment or punishment.
Why do teams fall into groupthink?
Groupthink happens when people suppress their own views to avoid standing out or being seen as difficult, often driven by an instinctive fear of social exclusion rather than a genuine belief the group is right.
How many decisions do people make each day?
Estimates commonly cited put the figure around 35,000 per day, though the exact number is debated among researchers. The broader point Rush makes is that most decisions happen unconsciously, which limits our ability to evaluate our own decision-making quality.
When should structured decision-making tools be used instead of instinct?
Based on Rush's research, structured techniques tend to be more useful, and more readily accepted by teams, for higher-stakes decisions, in cross-functional teams, and in contexts where psychological safety may otherwise be low.
How can consultants reduce decision fatigue in their own practice?
Rush recommends building routine around recurring tasks, pre-deciding categories of opportunities to decline, and delegating tasks that don't require the owner's specific expertise.
When should a consultant hire a virtual assistant or EA?
Rush brought on support within her first year in practice, moving to full-time once the value became clear, suggesting that waiting until you're overwhelmed may mean delegating later than necessary.
Conclusion
Samantha Rush's research doesn't argue that instinct is bad or that every decision needs a formal process. It argues something more useful: that the quality of a decision often depends less on how smart the people in the room are, and more on whether the room is structured in a way that lets their best thinking actually surface.
For leaders, that means building psychological safety deliberately rather than assuming it exists. For consultants and thought leaders running their own practices, it means applying the same logic inward; removing the decisions that don't need to be made fresh every day, so there's capacity left for the ones that do.
Work With Jane Anderson
If Samantha Rush's story resonated with you, here are some ways to take the next step:
Women With Influence: Join a community of B2B women consultants, coaches, and advisors building world-class practices
1:1 Coaching: Work directly with Jane on your personal brand and business growth strategy
Influence Lab: Createa year’s worth of thought leadership content and turn your expertise into strategic assets for your consulting practice.
Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:
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Jane Anderson introduces herself and the purpose of her new podcast, "The Jane Anderson Brand New Show," aimed at empowering experts to enhance their impact, influence, and income. The show focuses on helping women build thriving consulting and advisory practices, particularly in business-to-business contexts. Jane emphasizes the support the podcast provides to female thought leaders in the consulting and advisory space, offering them a platform to share their success stories, challenges, and insights on building successful practices.
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Jane discusses the structure of the podcast which includes interviews with successful women who offer behind-the-scenes looks at their consulting and advisory practices. The show covers various aspects necessary for a successful practice, such as marketing, sales, and systems. Jane also highlights upcoming events, such as the Nurture Retreat in Noosa, designed to help attendees focus on self-care and practice growth. Experts like Alessandra Edwards and Keith Abraham are slated to provide insights into high performance and client relationship nurturing at the retreat.
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The episode features a guest, Samantha Rush, who is celebrated for her ability to unravel complexity and facilitate impactful decision-making while ensuring psychological safety. Samantha's diverse background includes roles in intelligence, corporate executive positions, and strategic consulting across various sectors. Her academic credentials include an MBA and ongoing PhD research in decision-making. Aside from her professional pursuits, Samantha's personal interests include cheesemaking, filmmaking, and spending time with her cats.
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Samantha Rush shares her approach to consulting, emphasizing the importance of bespoke, value-adding services rather than generic solutions. She discusses her journey from dissatisfaction with conventional advisory services to establishing her practice, highlighting her commitment to excellence and bespoke client service. Samantha's multifaceted expertise includes decision-making and extends to creative endeavours, enriching her consulting practice.
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Samantha delves deeper into her expertise in decision-making, explaining its foundational role in both personal life and business. She discusses how her interest led to a specialized consulting practice focused on enhancing decision-making processes within organizations. Samantha also touches on common challenges in decision-making, such as unconscious biases and the complexity of group dynamics, which can significantly impact organizational effectiveness.
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The discussion shifts to the broader organizational implications of decision-making practices. Samantha explains how individual biases and decisions can accumulate, creating complex dynamics at the team, divisional, and organizational levels, akin to a metaphorical Jenga game. This complexity underscores the need for structured decision-making processes to ensure optimal outcomes across all levels of an organization.
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Samantha Rush discusses the importance of ensuring every team member has the opportunity to contribute their voice in team decision-making. Highlighting the crucial roles individuals play in bringing diverse perspectives, particularly in multifunctional teams, Samantha points out how missing perspectives, like legal or HR, can significantly impact outcomes. She underscores her research focus on creating structures that enable all team members to contribute effectively, ensuring that crucial, potentially dissenting views are heard and considered.
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Exploring further into team dynamics, Samantha addresses the issues of groupthink and the suppression of dissenting opinions due to social conformity. She describes the psychological mechanisms that might discourage team members from sharing unique or contrary perspectives, emphasizing the evolutionary basis of these behaviors. Samantha also touches on the importance of self-awareness and leadership in fostering an environment where all voices can be confident and heard, thereby enhancing decision-making quality and organizational outcomes.
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The conversation shifts to the personal level, where Samantha analogizes decision-making in daily life to the professional setting. She illustrates how everyday decisions, like choosing dinner or going to the gym, reflect professionals' broader challenges in maintaining discipline and motivation. She connects these concepts to the responsibilities of leaders and consultants in fostering an environment that encourages productive contributions from all team members.
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Samantha shares insights into the practical challenges of running a consulting practice, particularly the reluctance to engage in activities like business development due to fears of rejection or appearing pushy. She discusses balancing multiple priorities and the importance of perseverance and innovation in maintaining client engagement and interest.
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Samantha describes her participation in a significant conference where she presented her PhD research on structured decision-making techniques within teams. Her research aims to identify contexts in which structured techniques are most beneficial, exploring factors such as team composition, decision stakes, and the virtual versus face-to-face settings. This segment highlights the ongoing need for evidence-based approaches to improve organizational decision-making processes.
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Concluding the discussion, Samantha reflects on the personal journey of defining and refining her professional identity and practice. She stresses the importance of experimentation and experience in discovering one's preferred work types, clients, and subjects. Additionally, she underscores the challenge of finding enough time to pursue all desired activities and projects, emphasizing the value of structured time management in achieving professional growth and maintaining balance.
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Samantha discusses the persistent challenge of separating personal time from professional demands, highlighting the difficulty of "turning off" in a career deeply integrated with personal life. She notes the struggles of defining end times for work, expressing that the boundary between work and personal time often blurs, leading to a cycle where the workday intrudes into personal time.
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Samantha attributes significant parts of her practice's growth and her ability to manage time effectively to her assistant, Janine. She emphasizes the crucial role Janine plays in handling tasks that require meticulous detail—tasks Samantha acknowledges she isn't suited for. This partnership allows her to focus on her strengths and entrust operational details to her capable assistant, highlighting the importance of delegation in professional growth.
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Reflecting on her career trajectory, Samantha credits her ability to overcome challenges to the support and insights she has gained from her professional community, particularly the Women in Influence community. She discusses how exchanging ideas and challenges with peers has been instrumental in refining her practice and decision-making processes, underlining the benefits of having a supportive network for feedback and advice.
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The discussion concludes with Samantha stressing the importance of managing cognitive load by establishing routines and structures that minimize decision fatigue. She advocates for setting clear priorities and routines to streamline both professional and personal life, thereby conserving mental energy for the most important tasks and decisions. This approach not only enhances productivity but also helps maintain a clearer focus on strategic goals.
Full Show Transcript:
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(0:09 - 0:30)
Hi there, my name's Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.
(0:31 - 0:51)
So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. Hi there and welcome to the Jane Anderson Show. I'm so thrilled that you are here and we have a very special guest today.
(0:51 - 1:10)
So I'm thrilled you're joining us and I can't wait for you to hear what she has to say. If you're new to the Jane Anderson Show, you'll know, well you'll find out that we're all about helping women to have really successful and thriving consulting and advisory practices. So that's as in selling business to business.
(1:11 - 1:27)
So if you're selling to medium to large organisations, we sometimes have women who are selling business to business as in to small businesses as well. That's totally fine. So regardless, if you're a thought leader, female thought leader in the consulting advisory space, then this is the place for you.
(1:27 - 2:00)
So we interview women who have consulting and advisory practices that are successful and to share some of their stories and lessons and a little bit about how their practice works. So I find that that helps women to sort of get some sense about what they want to do, but also to go a little bit behind the scenes and to be able to go a little bit into the background or a bit of detail about how the mechanics of their practice works. We typically talk about marketing, sales, systems and all the things that make a practice successful.
(2:00 - 2:08)
Other things that are coming up soon. So we have the nurture retreat that is coming up in July. That'll be up in beautiful Noosa.
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So if you haven't jumped on the website, jump on there and have a look. We'll be doing three or two and a half days with really about nurturing yourself and also how to nurture your practice. And so we've got people coming along who are people like Alessandra Edwards, who is an expert in high performance and well-being.
(2:28 - 2:43)
And she specifically works, she's worked with a lot of thought leaders. So she'll be coming to speak and to be able to help us to identify things like what is our best sort of routine for our day and managing our energy. We've got the one and only Keith Abraham coming.
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He'll be coming to talk about how to nurture those relationships and the clients in your practice. And we'll be also having Mandy Napier. Mandy Napier is a mindset expert.
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She's worked with a lot of thought leaders, experts in their field. And so make sure you jump on. We also have the content creation boot camp that is coming up at the end of the year that's been released this week.
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And that is on Kingscliff. So if you haven't come to a content creation boot camp before, we create a year's worth of content in just a couple of days. And this time, now we use other AI tools as well.
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We bring in things like ChatGP Team, things that while still maintaining that it's your expertise, your thought leadership. So come along. I'd love to be able to help you to grow your practice.
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In the meantime, we have our guest today. Let me introduce you. Our guest today helps teams make decisions better by unravelling complexity and facilitating decision-making that changes thinking and safeguards psychological safety.
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She's a curiosity-driven person. She loves exploring the magic that happens at different ideas and how they combine, creating something really new. She's passionate about all kinds of growth and progress.
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She's faced plenty of ambiguity and tough decisions in her time as an intelligence and in corporate executive roles, as a company director, business advisor, and strategic consultant across sectors and industries. Aside from comprehensive and diverse experience, her qualifications are an MBA, psychology, HR, industrial relations. She's currently undertaking a PhD researching decision-making.
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She's a recognised fellow of lots of different associations. And outside of work, she loves making cheese. She drinks champagne.
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She makes short films and she loves to hang out with her cats. Please welcome Samantha Rush. All right.
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(4:40 - 4:49)
Sam, welcome to the podcast. I'm so grateful that you are here and it's such a pleasure to catch up with you. So thanks for being on the show.
(4:50 - 5:03)
It's a pleasure. Very, very happy to be here. Samantha, you are one of the, I mean, all the ladies we work with and that we know through their thought leadership and the work they're doing are phenomenal, but your work is just extraordinary.
(5:03 - 5:29)
You are not just a thought leader, but you are like the da Vinci of thought leadership. I think about all the incredible things that you do. You're involved in film productions and then you write books and create cards and then you, like the programs that you're involved in, you just create this incredible, beautiful mosaic of your expertise and full self-expression.
(5:29 - 5:47)
I'm just always just in awe of you and everything that you do. I've never, I might've called myself a da Vinci of decision-making, but I never thought of myself as da Vinci in general. And I guess I just like to keep myself, I'm a very curious person.
(5:47 - 5:54)
I like to try different stuff and I like to see how things work, especially if it's something that I'm interested in. Yeah. I like cheese.
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Cheese. I learned how to make cheese. I love jewellery.
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So I did silverware. Yeah, that's right. It interests me.
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I want to know more about it, but I'll take the da Vinci comment. You are just extraordinary. And I love that you somehow tap into all these aspects of your brand.
(6:15 - 6:49)
So in the intro, I've shared that you're a decision-making expert and the da Vinci of decision-making, but you've got all this incredible expertise that you bring to the table. Tell us about, for those who are listening, so most of these ladies have had their practices for a little while or starting out. How did you get into this world of running a thought leadership B2B consulting practice? Did it just fall in your lap or did you sort of really start looking for it? How did it all happen? I'd say it's a little bit of both.
(6:49 - 7:17)
So there's a little bit of deliberate and intentional action in wanting to do something for myself, which really started with consulting. I have a corporate background. I've worked with quite a few of the big four in my time working in corporate organisations and without naming names or throwing anyone under a bus, I've never been impressed.
(7:17 - 7:24)
Right. And there's a number of reasons behind that. I haven't necessarily been impressed with the quality of work.
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I haven't been impressed with the bespoke nature of the product I've been provided, which I would expect for the price that I've paid. Right. So you're talking about you've been in situations where you've brought advisors in to come and, okay, right.
(7:41 - 8:01)
So I'm one of those people, Jane, who, if I see something and I think I can do it better, then I put my money where my mouth is. For example, you know, years ago, I went to a few weddings and I'm like, who is this celebrant? Oh, really? I haven't celebrated for five years. A singing celebrant.
(8:01 - 8:20)
So I used to sing as well. So I'd be on the aisle or after your ceremony and I'd marry you. Um, so I'm, I'm just that kind of person who thinks, I think I, and this is not in a conceited way, but you know what, I, I believe strongly in providing really great service.
(8:20 - 8:44)
So if I see something and I think it can and should be done better, then I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. And that's kind of like a proving to myself that I'm right. I'm not just a, you know, a conceited, um, or whether it's my curiosity of wanting to know, like, is this really that hard? Like, um, it's an itch you have to scratch.
(8:45 - 8:53)
Yeah, exactly. If I see something and I think I'm really not impressed by that, I expect more and I think I could do better. It's normally something that I'll give a go.
(8:54 - 9:17)
So that's kind of how I got into thinking, yeah, I'd really like to get into consulting rather than give my clients, uh, you know, uh, a product that I've copied and pasted from a previous client's work when they paid me really good money for it. I want to do really good tailored bespoke work that helps to add value and answer their, their actual question, not just try and get the next gig. So that's kind of how it started.
(9:18 - 9:53)
Um, and then, you know, as you go along, you learn what you enjoy, what you don't enjoy, who you like working with, who you don't like working with. And it's just kind of, I suppose, um, converged into this niche space of, I really enjoy talking about and working in the space of decision-making because it is, it's such a, um, like it's a foundational part of not only our life, but businesses and decision-making I think is one of those things that people think they do really good. Right.
(9:53 - 10:04)
Um, and you know, the research shows we make about 35,000 decisions every single day, every single one of them. Wow. Really? About 200 are about food, which I can totally vouch for.
(10:04 - 10:13)
Really? My husband would agree with that. And so our brains are always making these decisions. I mean, we just don't know about it.
(10:13 - 10:17)
It's unconscious. It's, it's not intentional. Right.
(10:17 - 10:29)
I'm conscious. So a lot of us think that we're really good at it because we don't actually know what's happening. So, you know, it's a bit of a black box up here on top of our shoulders and we're not quite sure what's happening sometimes.
(10:29 - 11:01)
Okay. When you look into it, you dig into it and you can start to identify what are the things that I'm deciding intentionally, and then I'm getting the outcomes that I'm looking for. What am I not doing so good? How can I put some structure around the things that are really important that we need to make sure I get good outcomes for all the things that I usually struggle with, which then can make your whole decision making process, whether that's for you as an individual or whether it's for teams in an organisation, just helping them to be able to make decisions better.
(11:02 - 11:49)
And Sam, what happens if like if at an individual level, so you're talking about for, let's say, a participant that's working with you, they're all the things that they're on, you're uncovering with them like unconscious bias, or it might be, you know, just they're on personality, okay. And then what happens, Samantha, if over time, like these things aren't made conscious and aware, what starts to happen at an organisational level, if these things are happening at an individual level? So there are a few, I suppose, phenomena is that the road when you bring people together organisation, so you've got, I suppose, layers. So you've got that those impacts at an individual level.
(11:49 - 11:59)
Yeah. And then when you bring a group of people together, that's almost, you know, you start creating the Jenga effect. So you've got that individual for every one of the six people in the room.
(11:59 - 12:09)
Right. You've got, so that's at a team level, then you've got a divisional level. And it just kind of keeps growing until you get to the organisational level, where there's all of these decisions being made.
(12:09 - 12:24)
And, you know, the organisation is a metaphor that's been used to describe it like a brain. So all of these decisions are happening. Nobody really knows whether the right decisions are being made, who's making the decisions, how are people being involved.
(12:25 - 12:33)
And, you know, so one of the things that I'm really passionate about is voice. Yeah, okay. Especially in teams.
(12:33 - 12:48)
So making sure that everybody has the opportunity to be able to share their voice when it comes to team decision making. Because when you bring a team of people together, you're relying on their expertise, their particular piece of the puzzle. Yeah.
(12:48 - 13:02)
And that's even more so when you've got a multifunctional team. So perhaps you've got a project team, or you've got a, you know, a senior leadership team, you've got someone with a HR background, a legal background, you know, you've got people with all of these different pieces of the puzzle. Okay.
(13:02 - 13:25)
Really important decisions without the legal viewpoint, which never normally happens, legal people are usually quite happy to get their own. Yes. But if it's someone with a really important perspective that could actually make the difference between success and failure, you know, profit versus non-profit, or, you know, keeping stuff versus losing stuff.
(13:25 - 13:48)
And if that person doesn't speak up and contribute what they think, it leaves a massive hole. So part of the research that I'm doing is looking at how do we try and make sure that for the right contexts and for the right people, the right structure is in place so that everybody feels that they can add their perspective. Right.
(13:49 - 14:01)
And I think I've semi-answered your question, but if I go back to it, when you've got all those layers of people, you've got people coming together, there are things like groupthink. Yes. It's the loudest people.
(14:01 - 14:08)
Right. And no one sort of challenges anything or... Exactly. And yeah, if you've got a dissenting view, that actually might be really, really important.
(14:09 - 14:14)
But it's different to everyone else. And I don't want to be kicked out of the tribe. I don't want to be seen as different.
(14:14 - 14:30)
I want to be seen as a player. So I don't share. But that might be right for you using your instinct, the inner part of your personality that doesn't want you to get kicked out of the tribe, because we are a few steps away from being cave people.
(14:30 - 14:37)
That's fine. Right. But that's not the right outcome for the organisation, necessarily.
(14:37 - 14:48)
Yeah. Stay quiet on that. So I think being more conscious about maybe why you're feeling like you don't want to participate is really important.
(14:49 - 15:07)
So you can work out, hang on, is this just me instinctively not wanting to be thrown out of the tribe, my brain trying to protect me? Protecting me, my belonging, survival. Exactly. And being able to ask and almost challenge yourself with a robust question.
(15:07 - 15:30)
Is my contribution important? And if I believe my contribution is important, then I need to share it. Right. And leaders, I guess there's a whole skill set that comes for leaders to create that context and that whole psychological safety, space, trust, vulnerability, all those things to cultivate that in a team, I guess.
(15:30 - 15:36)
And it is everybody's responsibility. Right. However, people are people.
(15:37 - 15:48)
And in the heat of the moment, people are really passionate about something, or people really don't care about something. All of that, what I should do, gets pushed to the wayside. Right.
(15:49 - 16:10)
It's the same, you know, it's Saturday night, you've had a really hard day, you've been doing all your chores, you're sitting on the couch and you think to yourself, I should make a really healthy dinner, but I really just want to call Uber Eats and pop a bottle of wine. The difference between what should I do, but kind of what's the heat of the moment telling me what to do? Right. Yes, absolutely.
(16:11 - 16:20)
It's everybody's responsibility to make sure that everybody feels comfortable at work to bring their all and to bring their valuable viewpoints. But it doesn't always happen. Right.
(16:20 - 16:32)
And there's a lot of that, you know, I don't feel like doing something, like I don't feel like, you know, even if it's just day to day type things, I don't feel like going to the gym. I don't feel like. That was me this morning, Jane.
(16:32 - 16:44)
What was that? I didn't feel like going to the gym this morning. But you just got to do it, don't you? So like how to, and I think it's the same in our practices as well. I don't feel like writing a blog today.
(16:44 - 17:10)
I feel like writing content. I don't feel like unpacking thought leadership. What are some of the things like for us as thought leaders and experts running a practice like this, that the decisions that we perhaps face that are like that don't feel like doing things or other ones that you think that you see, you know, consultants, thought leaders that would come up against that would be holding them back in their growth? Oh, look, I think, and I'm absolutely the worst at this as well.
(17:11 - 17:15)
What was that? Business development. Yeah. Don't want to get on the phone.
(17:15 - 17:26)
Don't want to call. Getting on the phone calls. And, you know, sometimes if you know there is like a competing priorities, I suppose, I know that I really have some content that I need to develop, but this person wants to meet with me.
(17:26 - 17:42)
So I know that I have to do both. Yes. Which of them is more important? And, you know, that just that sort of that and that's that what should I do versus like what don't I really want to do? And just depending on who you are as a person.
(17:43 - 17:51)
Yes. Maybe one is more attractive to you than the other. Maybe the thought of going to do some selling for you is a lot more attractive than sitting down and knuckling down to write something.
(17:52 - 17:57)
For me, BD is always a challenge. I love talking to people. I have no problem talking to people.
(17:57 - 18:13)
But there's just there's something that happens. Yeah. There's a fear of like is it, you know, sometimes we find it's the fear of rejection or I don't want to be annoying or I don't want to be that salesy person or, you know, the repetition sometimes.
(18:13 - 18:22)
There's also an element, Jane, and I'm super passionate about all of this stuff. Yeah. But, you know, sometimes I get a little bit bored talking about the same thing.
(18:25 - 18:36)
From a Da Vinci, I'm not surprised. Yeah, but you're kind of like, oh, I need to spike this up or, you know, this particular client I'm going to talk to about something else. I'm going to try a different angle or trying to find a way to keep it spicy.
(18:37 - 18:43)
It just, you know, hang on. I've just got a tape I want to play for you. Yeah, right.
(18:44 - 18:47)
Exactly. I love it. Definitely.
(18:48 - 19:02)
And so, Samantha, this is phenomenal work because what I love about it is it's a category that's been around for some time, but its context is changing all the time. You've got AI, you know, where we go. Yeah.
(19:03 - 19:36)
AI and the future of work and robotics, all that sort of thing going, okay, well, it's going to reduce our level of decisions that we have to make, but that means more creativity, which is coming up with more ideas, is it? And so, Samantha, you've just come back from San Diego and you've been over there presenting your research and at a big conference over there. Can you tell us about what you presented or what you talked about and what conference was it? Yeah, I'd love to. So, it was the Society for Personality and Social Psychology.
(19:36 - 19:46)
That's a really broad range of potential topics to talk about. And there were thousands of people at this conference. I've never seen such a big one.
(19:46 - 19:49)
They're big ones over there, aren't they? Yeah. Massive. Just massive.
(19:50 - 20:22)
So, I was presenting my research, which is a kind of an expectation, I suppose, of when you're doing a PhD because it's about, you know, testing your ideas and testing what you've learned and getting feedback from other people and other ideas, which is a really important part of, I think, learning and working is getting feedback from other people because, you know, we see things with our own blinders sometimes. Different people with different perspectives and different experience have a look at the evidence you've collected and maybe make some other suggestions is really, really valuable. So, that's what I did.
(20:23 - 20:49)
So, my research is about looking for the context in which it is more likely that people will find it acceptable to use structured techniques in team decisions and teams. Wow. Using structured techniques in team decision-making has been proven by quite a few people to be really helpful in reducing some of those issues that come up in teams like groupthink or common knowledge effects.
(20:49 - 21:06)
So, structure has been proven to be helpful there. But what we don't know is what contexts. What contexts? When has it seemed more acceptable than others? So, for example, do I want to use a structured technique when deciding if I want Brie or Edam cheese? Probably not.
(21:07 - 21:36)
I can figure that out and it's probably going to be Brie. But for what kinds of decisions? Is it about the type of issue? Is it about the consequence of the decision? Is it about the makeup of the team? Is it about how the team's interacting together? So, you know, for example, are we deciding something face-to-face or virtually? Yeah. And also looking at the personality factors and all of the sub-factors of the individual and have a look at psychological safety as well.
(21:36 - 21:53)
So, what are the contexts in which it's more likely that someone's going to accept the use of an additional tool for decision-making? You know, as I mentioned before, we all think we're great at decision-making. Right. And most of us think that we don't really need any help because we can figure it out ourselves.
(21:53 - 22:01)
But the reality is for things that are really important, structure can be really helpful. Right. Well, that's interesting.
(22:01 - 22:27)
So then, you know, leading into running a practice, you know, you've had your practice for some time and do all, you know, an extraordinary amount of variety of things. You are just such an artist of how you do this. In terms of how this sort of when you think about running your practice and the things that I guess the challenges that you've had in growing your practice, have you had any challenges? You make it all look so easy.
(22:28 - 22:41)
Absolutely, no. Because the way you do all your work, you're like, oh, wow, everyone wants to be Sam when we grow, when she grows, when we grow up. I want to be, you know, that person when I grow up too.
(22:42 - 22:51)
There's always challenges, you know. One of the biggest challenges I think is figuring out who you want to be and what you want to do. So, what does it look like when you grow up? Right.
(22:52 - 22:58)
And the only way to learn that is through spending time with yourself. Okay. Getting yourself out there and trying stuff.
(22:59 - 23:12)
So, doing that figuring out of what do I want to do? What do I not want to do? Who do I want to work with? Who don't I want to work with? What are the things I like working on? Yes. The topics. So, definitely, you know, I think that was a challenge and that just takes time.
(23:12 - 23:16)
Right. Time. Time is always hard.
(23:16 - 23:28)
Time is a massive challenge, you know. There's never enough time to do all the things that you want to do. And that's why I think, you know, working with you, Jane, where we lock aside time.
(23:29 - 23:39)
Yes. Do this stuff is so important, you know, where we're working on our practice. So, we've just got that time locked away where we can do some of the things we haven't had time to all week because that time is blocked out.
(23:39 - 23:58)
Time is always hard. I know, you know, my lovely wife asks me not every evening, maybe every other evening, what time are you finishing tonight? And normally, my answer is, I don't know, how long is a piece of string? Like, there is no end. So, I think that can be a little bit of a challenge, too, in just, like, you can't turn off.
(23:58 - 24:07)
Yeah. Yeah. This sort of game, it's so integrated into your life, isn't it? That it's not, okay, it's five o'clock, go home.
(24:09 - 24:14)
It's five o'clock, I've finished all that stuff. Now, I've got time. I've finished all my meetings.
(24:14 - 24:21)
Now, I start my day. Or, you know, whatever it is. So, yeah, I think definitely those are challenges.
-
(24:21 - 24:45)
Yeah. And, Samantha, what are some of the things that, you know, if you think back to when you began, or even just recently, any of the things that you have, you know, put into your practice or integrated into your practice that have really helped you as part of your growth? Definitely my wonderful assistant, Janine. Yeah, I was going to say, she's not a great BA.
(24:45 - 24:57)
She is amazing. She does so many things that I know I would not have the time to do. Even if I had the time to do, I would not do a very good job of it.
(24:57 - 25:02)
Because I'm not a detail person, Jane. Right. 80-20 kind of girl.
(25:02 - 25:13)
Okay. When it comes to things like designing things, so quite frequently, I will scratch something up on paper. And I say scratch because it does look like the chicken's scratch.
(25:13 - 25:19)
It does it? Okay. I take a picture and I send it to Janine. And like an hour, she sends me back a beautiful image on Canva.
(25:19 - 25:31)
Wow. My scratching's brought to life in something that is readable. So, definitely working with someone who I can trust, who knows how I work.
(25:31 - 25:37)
And, you know, we've been working together for, oh, maybe two and a bit years. Yeah. Okay.
(25:37 - 25:42)
So, we know each other. We know how we work. She can read my handwriting.
(25:43 - 25:59)
That's impressive. So, definitely, Janine has just been a game changer for me. And even after, you know, two and a half years, I keep being able to give her more and more things and just leave her with them, which is a game changer.
(26:00 - 26:08)
Absolutely. Well, you talked about being able to get time. That's that buying back time, isn't it? Just being able to get someone to help you.
(26:08 - 26:22)
Did you bring her on fairly early in the game, Samantha, or, you know? I think it was maybe a year and a bit in. Okay. I realized that there were some things that I was really not getting to that I really had to get to.
(26:24 - 26:31)
And that I needed some help to be able to do that. So, she started with me part-time. So, she was with me the first year part-time.
(26:31 - 26:35)
Okay. And then after that first year, we moved to full-time. Right.
(26:36 - 26:39)
Okay. Yeah. So, that's very quick.
(26:40 - 26:56)
Like, she obviously was able to get you a return on your time fairly quickly that you could see it was worth investing. Absolutely. And I think the other thing that I found invaluable with the challenges is just actually learning from other people who were doing similar things.
(26:56 - 27:16)
So, whether it be part of the Women in Influence community, just other people that are doing similar things, just to be able to float ideas, you know, to say, hey, I'm struggling with this. You know, how do you do this? Yeah. It's really helpful because otherwise things just roll around in your brain.
(27:17 - 27:32)
That's right. They just roll around, they take up space, and it's just such a waste of time. So, if you've got people around you, you know, your board of directors, if you like, or your advisory board, who you can go to and say, hey, I've got this problem.
(27:32 - 27:45)
What do you think? You know, have you done this before? Or do you have any ideas? Yes. It just means that you can save your brain power. And this is, I suppose, the impact that I look for in all of the work that I do.
(27:45 - 27:54)
Save your brain power for what you need. Yeah. And also the extra random stuff because everything that we do takes up space in our brain.
(27:54 - 27:58)
But our brain has limited capacity. Yeah. We have cognitive limits.
(27:59 - 28:09)
And so, the more we try and chuck in there, the less we're going to be able to do. Kind of like a washing machine, you know, where you jam all the clothes in and they don't actually wash properly. What a great metaphor.
(28:10 - 28:17)
I like it. There's not enough water going in around there and there's not enough space. But if you do a smaller load, actually, it washes better.
(28:18 - 28:36)
So, it's in our mind. Save it for the important stuff. So, if you can try and put structure around the things that are easy to try and automate things, get other people to do it, get advice from people and save the really hard, you know, brain calculations and thinking for the things that really matter.
(28:37 - 28:41)
Yeah. What great advice. And there's only one of you in this.
(28:42 - 28:56)
You know, you're the thought leader. You're the expert. So, it's trying to free up that bandwidth all the time, isn't it? To go, it's the assets and the ideas and all those things to keep being able to have the space to create those things.
(28:56 - 29:15)
Because otherwise, it's, you know, cubbies, gravel, sand and water. You just end up in gravel, sand and water and those big things, the most important things don't get done. Samantha, if someone was listening to this who's at this, say, similar stage in their practice, they may be going through a growth phase.
(29:15 - 29:34)
Most are sort of going through that growth phase. What advice would you have for them? For them with growing their, you know, thought leadership or consultancy advisory practice to help them progress quicker? So, I think the structure and structure can be lots of different things. So, that might be a routine.
(29:35 - End)
Right. It might be some kind of routine or rhythm. So, if you find it really valuable, you know, talking to other people, it might be, Jane, can I get a half hour with you every single week? I want to, you know, just pick your brain about things or, you know, a regular coffee day.
(29:51 - 29:59)
But there's some kind of regularity. I do my thing, I do my newsletter comes out on this day. So, I know I have to write on this day. so again you've structured your life yes as much as you can so that you're you're saving your cognitive effort for other things it's kind of like you know why my little bird wears the same thing every day so that he doesn't have to think about what he's going to wear it just happens exactly what can you put into place that you know is just routine rhythm and is going to save your brain power for something else i think that's a a great piece of advice yeah i would do that's such great advice that's you know obviously a big part of you know what we've put into practices and trying to do ourselves even in women's influence we love it the less decisions we have to make the better you know that they're things that just remove all that friction too don't they like you just otherwise it just creates all this stickiness all the time in your practice like oh oh hang on i haven't done a newsletter this week oh hang on i haven't done salesforce today oh hang on and then you're at that point where you're saying i really need to do sales call and i really need to do a newsletter one of them's got a job which is it that's right if you if you have your your blocks built in and look i i'm i'm totally guilty of doing this too so this isn't much a spoon a spoonful of medicine for me as it is for any yeah um it's a constant it's a constant conveyor belt it really is yeah and they're things that you can you know they're going to happen again aren't they so you should you might as well put a routine in like what's the cadence it's sort of working out sometimes that cadence isn't it like okay that is a routine so what is the routine that needs to go with that is that a daily weekly monthly quarterly thing put it in get it in the calendar reduce the decision fatigue the friction just rock up we have to do a show up i think i think some of us you know kind of think oh no you know i i can i can keep more in my brain i can do more i can take on more and you know saying yes to more stuff but for everything you know there's an opportunity cost with everything that we do yes one thing means we can't do another thing so you know it is it is i think important to realize that you can't do everything you sometimes have to pick so if you can try and save your brain power yes the things that are the most important and maybe it's kind of you know just consciously intentionally having a look at all of the activities that you do and and labeling them as must do you know must do must not do nice to do if i've got time and then you know you can kind of structure your structure your day around that and then add timelines around that as you're saying you know there's the cadence so must do daily must do weekly nice to do quarterly if i get to it yes but at least then it's intentional yeah and you inspired me i have to share with this year because i had um uh you know i remember you and rowdy mclean inspired me rowdy i remember rowdy had a year of the year of no a few years ago and he said it was his year where he said pretty much no to everything except you know some core things and um that i thought that's all right that's not visual enough for me like i i was like yep yes and and i was like so what will help me make the decision more easily so i just have a list like on my office wall here that i was like these are the things i have to say no to this year and they're right in front of me so that as they come up because it'll be could you speak at this thing or could you do that or could you you know i've got this so it's so i don't go oh you know maybe just this one's uh no so you know some of those things to remove you know that decision because i don't need to make the decision it's right there yeah you don't have to think about it you don't have to think about it so i think um your work is just so critical samantha for for people in you know workplaces the future of work in the work that we do um and you're writing your book at the moment as well yeah well it's going to be based on my phd so the phd has to be done first and there's a lot of writing that's involved in that because it takes you know everything takes longer than you think you know you i'll spend one weekend doing research and i'll write one paragraph that's just the reality of how long it takes but what it means is that you know there's a lot of fodder in there that i'll be able to make english um and to you know to be able to share some components of that um with the world so yeah definitely am i uh writing my book right now no yes i am because what i'm writing now will be part of that yeah so we need to keep an eye out for your book uh and big things i'm taking away sam i love this um thinking around this curiosity and what drives you as you know and now that makes sense with the da vinci and that real motivation and curiosity to make things better um love what you said about um is that is creating the context that of what you create for people to help them find their voice and i think that happens a lot for you know for us in our spaces we can get drowned out even if we're on our own um you know we've got so many other things that are taking up decision making that we can't even you know get the things done to get our voice out there um research and the context of what you spoke about and i love your advice on um creating um regularity in your practice and removing all that that friction and routines and rhythms in your in your practice um to remove the decision fatigue and um it just happens so thank you for sharing your expertise today and being part of the the podcast if people want to find out more about what you're doing or follow you samantha where would you like them to go so they can find me on linkedin so samantharush or samantharush.com is my website so there's um i have some white papers that are there on the website if anyone wants to read more about or you know hey drop me a line samantha at samantharush.com all right thank you so much for being on the show today samantha we can't wait to well hopefully we'll get you back when your book's written and we'll talk again and find out all the things that you've done since since today that would be great thank you so much for having me
Most of the guests interviewed are current or alumni members of the Women With Influence community. Click here to find out more
