Episode 43- Leadership Expert Midja Fisher

25 June

Written By Jane Anderson

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In this episode, we talk about building her personal brand as a leadership expert in the legal industry.

We talk about her books, why she uses the name Midja vs her name Melinda, the power of alter egos and the transition from corporate into building a consulting business.

Midja is an experienced mentor, facilitator and speaker, specialising in the areas of leadership development and company culture and values. Her corporate experience includes 20 years in the IT and legal industries, including partnership in a national law firm.

Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

The transcript begins with Jane Anderson, host of "The Jane Anderson Show," introducing the upcoming events related to personal branding and content creation. She announces two content creation boot camps, one in October on the Gold Coast and another in November in Melbourne, where participants will learn to create a year's worth of content in two days. Anderson emphasizes that these events are focused on implementation and creation rather than learning. She shares success stories from previous boot camps, highlighting the effectiveness of the program in helping individuals bring their ideas to life, such as one participant who attended both events to work on writing her book. Anderson also mentions her upcoming book, "Catalyst Content," which focuses on creating meaningful content that drives change. She then introduces the guest of the show, Melinda Fisher, also known as Midja, highlighting her background in law and corporate facilitation, her experience in leadership, and her achievements as an author and speaker.
Anderson introduces Melinda Fisher (Midja) as her special guest and describes her as a leadership expert, corporate facilitator, and mentor with over 20 years of experience. Midja's background as a lawyer and former partner of Shine Lawyers is highlighted, along with her focus on authentic leadership, building career confidence, and women's mentoring programs. Midja discusses her journey from practicing law to becoming a leadership coach and speaker, emphasizing her passion for helping individuals unlock their potential and love what they do. She shares her experience of transitioning from a corporate role to starting her own practice, driven by a desire to make a bigger impact and avoid regrets. The discussion touches on overcoming fear and self-doubt, seizing opportunities, and embracing change. Midja reflects on the importance of not waiting for permission to pursue one's goals and the role of personal experiences, such as loss and life changes, in motivating career transitions.
Midja and Anderson discuss the common fear of regret that drives individuals to make significant career changes. Midja shares her personal motivation for transitioning from corporate law to entrepreneurship, citing a desire to avoid reaching the end of her career with regrets about missed opportunities. Both speakers emphasize the importance of confronting fear and taking action to pursue meaningful work that aligns with one's passion and purpose. They acknowledge the challenges and uncertainties associated with stepping out of comfort zones but highlight the greater fear of wondering "what if" and the satisfaction of knowing that they pursued their aspirations without regrets.
The conversation delves into the challenges faced by high-performing women, particularly in traditional industries like law. There's a discussion on how the work environment may not naturally support women's needs and self-expression. Anderson and Fisher explore the difficulties of implementing flexible work arrangements in law firms and the struggle for women to feel fully self-expressed. Fisher highlights the shift required for women to transition from being great lawyers to great leaders and suggests that this transition may involve leading in different ways or communities to fully utilize their potential. They discuss the impact of disruption, change, and artificial intelligence on women's leadership roles in the legal industry. Fisher emphasizes the need for freedom and space for creative thinking at the top level of leadership, contrasting it with the scarcity mentality prevalent in traditional environments. They acknowledge the significance of women recognizing when a corporate environment no longer aligns with their values and aspirations and the opportunity to leverage their experience for greater impact outside of traditional roles.
The conversation shifts to Fisher's journey of self-expression and creativity in her business growth. Anderson praises Fisher's level of creativity and problem-solving skills, highlighting her ability to capture and express ideas effectively. Fisher shares her experience of starting the "Mondays with Mija" video blog as a way to establish routine, discipline, and process during a period of change. She reflects on the evolution of her content creation process over three years, from organic blogging to strategic marketing and book writing. Fisher emphasizes the importance of being present and noticing one's thoughts and ideas for creative expression. She discusses her daily practice of capturing ideas through various means, such as voice memos or videos, and her commitment to sharing her opinions and thoughts without fear of judgment. Both speakers emphasize the value of self-expression and the importance of overcoming self-doubt and perfectionism in creative endeavors. Fisher draws parallels between putting out content and wearing a bikini, highlighting the insignificance of self-judgment in the face of personal expression and the potential impact of one's work on others, even if feedback is not immediately apparent.
Anderson and Fisher discuss the importance of persistence in content creation, even when immediate feedback or validation may not be forthcoming. They reference Seth Godin's concept of "emotional labor," emphasizing the value of serving others through consistent effort, regardless of the response received. Fisher shares her experience of starting her video blog without a clear plan, highlighting the organic nature of her journey and the evolution of her content creation process over time. Both speakers stress the significance of taking action and continuously putting out work, even if it means starting without complete clarity or certainty about one's direction. Fisher echoes Godin's advice to "pick a horse" and take action rather than passively watching opportunities pass by.
The conversation shifts to the acceptance of imperfection and the importance of embracing growth. Fisher shares her philosophy of being somewhat embarrassed by her current work in five years as a sign of personal and professional growth. She emphasizes the value of starting before clarity emerges, highlighting the iterative nature of self-discovery and the willingness to adapt and evolve over time. Anderson praises Fisher's approach of keeping things light and playful while maintaining a focus on action and progress. They discuss the mindset of constantly striving for improvement while appreciating the present moment and the journey of self-discovery.
The conversation delves into Fisher's branding strategy and the evolution of her "Midja" persona. Fisher explains that "Midja" originated as a nickname derived from her initials, which stuck with her over the years. She describes how introducing herself as "Midja" in her professional endeavors sometimes challenges people's comfort zones but has become a memorable aspect of her personal brand. Fisher and Anderson discuss the concept of detachment in personal branding, highlighting the importance of amplifying certain facets of oneself for professional purposes while maintaining authenticity. They explore the idea of "Midja" as a version of Fisher that is amplified and molded to serve her professional goals. Fisher reflects on the importance of finding balance between energy and recharge, acknowledging the different roles and energies required in various aspects of life and work. She draws parallels between her professional persona and the concepts of "front of house" and "backstage," emphasizing the importance of representing her brand while also maintaining authenticity and personal growth.
In the final segment, Fisher provides advice for individuals transitioning into personal brand building or embarking on new career paths. She emphasizes the importance of taking action and getting started rather than waiting for perfect conditions or permission. Fisher encourages individuals, particularly women, to play a bigger game, think big, and have the audacity to ask for what they want. She stresses the significance of building networks, seeking mentors, and spreading ideas early on, even while still in a job. Reflecting on her own journey, Fisher acknowledges the value of hindsight and recommends that individuals invest time in self-reflection and planning for their future endeavors. She underscores the benefits of starting early and gradually building momentum toward one's goals.
Fisher discusses her book, "Great Lawyer to Great Leader," which addresses the challenges lawyers face when transitioning from technical expertise to leadership roles within law firms. She highlights the increasing demands for leadership skills in the legal profession, driven by technological advancements and global competition. Fisher shares insights from her experience working with law firms and emphasizes the need for leadership training and development to bridge the gap between legal expertise and effective leadership. She emphasizes the importance of nurturing emerging talent and creating succession plans within law firms to ensure sustainable leadership. Fisher's book and program aim to facilitate this transition by providing practical guidance and strategies for lawyers aspiring to become effective leaders.
As the conversation draws to a close, Fisher invites listeners to connect with her through her website, LinkedIn, or email. She emphasizes the practicality and relevance of her content, which is grounded in real-world experiences and conversations. Fisher's consistent approach to sharing insights and expertise through her newsletter and other platforms is praised by Anderson, who encourages listeners to tap into Fisher's knowledge and learn from her experiences. Fisher expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share her insights and engage in meaningful discussions, concluding the conversation on a positive note of appreciation and encouragement.

Full Show Transcript:

[Speaker 2] (0:07 - 7:36)
Hi there, my name is Jane Anderson and welcome to The Jane Anderson Show. You're in the right place. So welcome to today's show.

I'm super excited to share with you our very special guest today. But before I do, I want to share with you a couple of things that are coming up. So as you know, for those people who have worked with me before, you know that I work in particularly in the areas of personal branding and content creation.

And I have, there's a couple of events coming up. So coming up between now and the end of 2019, we have lots of things happening and in particular two big content creation boot camps. So one coming up in October on the beautiful Gold Coast.

So if you want to come to the Gold Coast and defrost, if you're living in the southern states. So the content creation boot camps, what we do is we create 52 pieces of content. So in other words, 12 months worth of world-class content in two days.

So it's a pretty intense day, couple of days. It's not about learning. It's about implementation and creation.

And so I'd love for you to come along. We've had, we had one back in July, which was fantastic. And we had seven people attend who created 357 pieces of content in two days.

So it's the, it's the perfect kind of event. If you want to come to, you've got some ideas in your head and you want to get it out, you want to get your stories out, you want to get your points out, your research, things like that. And maybe it's your content for your blogs.

Maybe it's content for your podcasts. We've had people who are coming along and who have come to, we had one lady who booked for the last one and the next one at the same time, because she said, I've got so much stuff I need to get out of my head. And she booked the second one, which is in October at the coast to, to write her book.

So she's got all the pieces of the puzzle of what she wants to do. She's just got to unpack it all and get it out of her head so that she can start writing the book. So, so if you'd like to come along, make sure you jump on the jane-anderson.com website and go to events and you will see the Gold Coast event on there. And we've had so much demand that I have decided to run one in November in Melbourne. So if you're in Melbourne or even Sydney, maybe it's a little bit handier for you. So I'd love for you to come along.

There is a little bit of pre-work to do, and I want to make sure that you, when you come to the two days that you get the absolute most out of it. So make sure that you register because you've got to get the pre-work done. And it takes, um, I set up the Facebook group about a month prior so that you can get started.

So if you want to jump along now, I'd love to see you there and get your content sorted out for 2020. I am in the process of writing a catalyst content, which is the book that I'm launching in 2020, which is all about how to create content that isn't just about creating content that's noise. It's about content that actually drives change.

So if you're a change maker, if you're a consultant in your own space, speaker, expert in your field, or you are, uh, within an organization and responsible for leading teams and transformational change, and you need content for like intranet platforms and things like that. Like if you're using Facebook workplace or teams or, uh, Yammer, any of those. So we'd love to see there.

So there's those two things that are coming up. And in the meantime, now I'm going to introduce to you my very special guest today. And so my guest today, I really had been really looking forward to interviewing her to be able to share with you a little bit of her journey and her background and what she's been able to accomplish in the last couple of years.

So this lady today, her name is Melinda Fisher or her friends call her Midger. And so that's kind of her nickname. Most of us know her by Midger.

And I met Midger a couple of years ago. She attended one of my programs and she just had so much creativity, so many ideas and so much experience. So her background is that she's a lawyer by trade.

She's a corporate facilitator, keynote speaker, all in the area of leadership. And so she specializes particularly in company culture and values development. She's had over 20 years experience in IT industries and legal industries.

And she was a partner in a national law firm here in Australia. What I love most about working with her over this time is that she's really been able to clarify who she is and her message and who she wants to work with. She's put together an incredible content strategy and how she creates her content.

So if you're not following her already, you might like to. She's on LinkedIn and she's also got midger.com. But what she does is the amount of presence it takes to unpack your content and your IP.

What I love most about noticing working with her is that how present she was to her ideas and what that's resulted in is the sheer volume of content that she has created. She's written two books in the last year, one called Confidence. Which is particularly for female leaders in any sector.

And then the other one that she's written is Great Lawyer to Great Leader. So if you're in the legal industry and you want to be able to get your hands on a really great book for lawyers, and Midger has fantastic programs. So she's a speaker, she speaks at conferences, runs workshops and executive coaching programs.

I'd highly recommend reaching out to her. So if you want to have a look at any of her books, jump on her website. But in the meantime, let's take a listen to the interview I've done with her.

So I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I'm so excited to be able to share her with you and for you to be able to hopefully be inspired by her. We talk a lot about leadership, her journey, particularly being a female leader and starting her own practice.

And we also talk a little bit about the alter ego. So we talk about, you know, her name is Melinda Fisher, and we talk a bit about this alter ego or this name called Midja. And I think it's a really interesting phenomenon to be able to tap into your alter ego.

Midja and I have talked quite a bit about this. So it's great to share some of the conversation with you as well. So our guest today has over 20 years experience as a leadership expert, corporate facilitator, mentor and keynote speaker.

She is a lawyer and former partner of Shine Lawyers, who are an ASX listed company here in Australia and one of the nation's largest compensation law firms. She works with leaders in organisations to leverage their strengths, gain skills and the self-belief that they need to inspire top performance. She specialises in the areas of authentic leadership, building career confidence and women's mentoring programs.

And her clients include people like the Toyota North Queensland Cowboys, SAP, James Conomos Lawyers and Sentinel Property Group. She is the author of two books, including her latest, Great Lawyer to Great Leader. It's my pleasure to introduce you to Midja Fisher.
Welcome. Hi Midja, how are you? I'm so glad you're here.

[Speaker 1] (7:37 - 7:42)
I'm really well. Thanks Jane and thank you for the invitation to be here today and have a chat.

[Speaker 2] (7:42 - 8:28)
It's my pleasure. Look, and for those who are listening today, you know, full disclosure that Midger is in the Women with Influence program that I run and I love working with Midger and I really wanted to take the opportunity to introduce you to her and share a bit about what she's been working on and the great stuff she's doing. And based on what Midger's done, I think she's a great example of women with influence.

So I wanted to really share what we could with your story with those who are thinking about perhaps taking this journey. And then also for those who are thinking about how do we work with someone like you because you've got such unique IP. So to start off with, tell us about your journey.

So you were in corporate, you were with Shine and then you made this journey out on your own. How did all that come about?

[Speaker 1] (8:29 - 11:05)
Yeah, so certainly I was with Shine Lawyers for a long time and started off my career like practicing law and really enjoyed practicing law, leading legal teams. I set up the Gold Coast office down here back in like 2000, 2001. So enjoyed that, but always had, I call it in my first book, I called it the niggle.

I work with people on the niggle. And all the women particularly that I mentor have this, they've got something that's inside of them and it might be screaming at them or it might be just a soft whisper, but it's, you know what, I want to do something different or there's something more that I can give and contribute and be of service in a bigger way. And so I was always just fascinated by, you know, human behavior, why people did what they did, how to get the best out of people.

And also for people to just enjoy their work, love what they do. And I had that experience of just loving Monday mornings and getting up and being so excited to go to work because of the team that I had, because of the leaders that I had. So for me, that passion comes from wanting other people to experience this.

Wanting other people to get up on a Monday morning and love what they do and love their workplaces, whether it's a law firm or any other sort of industry and love going to work. And so within Shine, I began facilitating, speaking, presenting, doing induction training, anything that I could get my hands on. And to me, it's around, you know, focusing on your strengths, what lights you up, and then finding every opportunity you can to do that.

And some people, they're like, well, I'm stuck in this role or stuck in this firm and I really want to do this. And I'm like, no one said to me here, you know, be part of the L&D team. Maybe you should coach or mentor.

[Speaker 2] (11:05 - 11:11)
I just did it. We so often wait for an invitation, don't we? We hold back.

[Speaker 1] (11:11 - 11:30)
Yeah, we wait for an invitation. Some people say to me, well, I'm not going to get a leadership role, you know, until my leader leaves or dies. Well, yes, you will.

You can. Yeah. But yeah, creating that opportunity and not waiting for permission to do that.

Yeah, right.

[Speaker 2] (11:31 - 12:08)
Yeah. And I think what we mean, we do that a lot, right? Because it's the imposter.

I don't know if I can do it. I don't know. What if I get in there and I fail?

What if people really find out I'm not that good? And, you know, there's all that fear and angst that comes with all that. And so for you, you shifted from being a lawyer to working into really helping lawyers achieve their potential as leaders.

And then you decided to step out on your own. So what was the transition for that? And how did all that work?

And what sort of was the driver for that?

[Speaker 1] (12:10 - 13:57)
So for me, it was around like a whole heap of change happening in my life. And I think when I talk to people, it's often the case that a number of things are happening in their life. So for me, it was, you know, it was the breakdown of my marriage was happening at the same time.

So there was some issues there. I'd lost my mum the year before. And I kind of, I don't know, I just got to this place where it's like it's now or never.

You know, like what are you waiting for? Like seriously, are you waiting for, again, someone to hand it to you, for someone to give you permission? And I don't know, I just got to that point where I went, I want to give this a red hot go because if I don't, I know I will get to the end of my working career and go, oh man, what if?

Like could I have done that? Could I have been that person? And so yeah, and that's the thing that keeps me going still, you know, because for me there's fear in, I know with a lot of people there's fear in doing something different.

There's fear in leaving that corporate security. There's a lot of fear involved in that. But for me the bigger fear was regret.

The biggest fear was in 20 years' time I go and I look at other people in the space doing the stuff that I want to do and I go, man, could I have done that? That's the biggest fear. And that really was the driver for me.

[Speaker 2] (13:58 - 16:28)
Yeah. And I think a lot of people who are watching and listening today will relate to that. I know that was the biggest driver for me.

I couldn't, I didn't want to die wondering. That's right. How could I have done that and watching people and going, you know, maybe that could have been me.

And so you made the transition and, you know, I don't know if you noticed this, Mija, but I noticed this a lot. I've done a little bit with early career lawyers but you've done a hell of a lot more than I have. And other high-performing women I think even in other industries where they're in traditional type industries and they're high-performing women, they're really clever and they, but sometimes the work environment doesn't naturally work for them as a woman.

So, you know, there's a, if you're in the legal industry, we see it's hard to work with flexible work arrangements, you know, partners can be concerned that they're not going to see the consistency of support for clients, you know, those types of things. And so I've just noticed I think women who have been lawyers and I often find they're super creative women and they don't feel fully self-expressed sometimes. So I think the legal industry is going through a really interesting time.

I know you talk about the impact of disruption and change and artificial intelligence and what this all means for women as leaders. But for female leaders who are in law firms, sometimes that step from great lawyer, and you talk about this in your book, is, you know, to move from great lawyer to great leader. For a lot of women that is sometimes actually is maybe shifting from being a great lawyer to a great leader may not be actually me here.

That may mean leading a different tribe, that may be leading another community, that may be stepping up in my own space because I can't be the fully self-expressed, I'm not stepping into my potential as much as I think I could be, or I don't have the work environment or the industry that allows this level of full self-expression that I'm trying to create. I don't know if you notice that in the legal industry, because I know you've written your book around confidence, which is particularly for female leaders. Do you notice some of that for women in the legal industry?

[Speaker 1] (16:29 - 17:11)
Yeah, certainly. I experienced that myself. You're a great example of it.

And a lot of women I meet that have decided to step away from corporate also have that same kind of experience, is that I just, either I can't, yeah, I can't be myself, I can't be like 100% myself. Right. And that creativity, you know, like my brain goes at 100 miles per hour, and the women I meet, their brains go like that.

I like that too. Yeah, and so to be in a box is tough.

[Speaker 2] (17:11 - 17:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (17:12 - 19:32)
You don't feel like you're adding the most value that you could add, and that's not a great space to be in. And so, yeah, I certainly hear that. I hear that a lot.

And, you know, I experienced that, and I think there's still a sense of people being in more traditional law firms and in traditional industries, there's some fear around too much creative thinking. Right. And if we let people go and don't control that, then what will happen?

Right. And for me at that top level of being a great leader, freedom is what's needed. Yeah.

You know, that freedom and that space to be able to influence, you know, not only your own organisation, your own team, but your industry and even outside of your industry. And there's still sometimes that mentality of, you know, scarcity and wanting just to keep people in the box and, yeah. And so that certainly can be a trigger, I think, for particularly for women going, you know what, I'm out.

Yeah, yeah. I've had enough. Because I think for a certain time you get to a certain level of experience or a certain stage of self-awareness that you go, you know what, this isn't for me anymore.

Yes. I can't do this anymore. And I think it's sometimes I see, and this is a shame for me, I see women totally kind of tap out and I just think there's such an opportunity to use all of that experience that you've gained in corporate to do something amazing.

And so instead of kind of putting your hands up and giving up and going, I'm done, kind of going, well, just what next? Yes, yes. How can I use all this experience I've got?

[Speaker 2] (19:32 - 21:23)
And I know when we first met, Mija, you know, that was that level of creativity. Like if you get to work with Mija and I'd highly recommend anyone listening to this and going, she sounds amazing, she is. Mija, the level of creativity that you have, and even when we first met, was mind-blowing.

You have flip charts in your kitchen. Like when we first met, just because you've come from learning and development and you have done so much training and so much, like the accreditations and things that you can do from corporate culture to leadership development to productivity, high performance, like there's a smorgasbord of stuff that you can do to create really high-performing leaders. As a result of that, you become really high-performing in your creativity.

And when we first met, I know that you had, you'd done, I think, nearly, was it about 14 months' worth of your video blog every Monday and, you know, you said, like you said, your kitchen or your living area is kind of like a workshop. You have flip charts everywhere and all this. And I just think that's, you know, something like that's a pretty good indicator that you've got this flow or this energy or this need for self-expression to make it come out.

Can you tell us a bit about, so when you started your business, you started sort of just finding your way. You were sort of doing some video blogs and things like that and now you're, I think since we met, we're probably about 18 months down the track. So tell us about, you started putting your video blogs out.

What sort of, what did you notice was the attraction, like what was happening or what was that, how was that working for you and then how has that evolved over time as part of your business growth?

[Speaker 1] (21:25 - 24:47)
And so for me, to be honest, I started the Mondays with Mija video blog and I just happened to do it on a Monday and I wasn't even thought out. I didn't go, oh, let's start this Mondays with Mija. It was like, I don't know, it was just a Monday I started it and then someone said, oh, are you going to do one next Monday?

And I'm like, yeah, okay, I will do one next Monday. And so for me it was a few things. It was about routine and having some discipline and having some process.

And for me, particularly I think when you're going through change, having some discipline or some processes or some must-do things that you do every week was just really important to me. Otherwise it's kind of like, okay, what are we doing today? Particularly when you've come from quite a reactive space.

I think most professionals, most people working in corporate, it's very reactive. People are emailing you, you're getting 300 emails a day. People are telling you what to do.

And so that freedom that comes from, okay, so what would I like to do today? What's going to add value to me and to my clients? And I just started really writing and blogging about just my experience, what I was noticing.

And so it started off, I think, just quite organic. And I think when I met you, Jane, and I showed you the work that I'd done and it had been over 12 months and you were like, I think you have a book in this, don't you? Really?

Do you think so? And so now what I'm nearly three, it'll be like three years and a few months that I've been blogging every Monday. Now, of course, it's more of a strategic process that I go through and I've just done the outline for my next book.

And so now for me it's like, okay, so I'm thinking about my positioning. I'm thinking about more strategic marketing, what I want to be known for, where am I heading. And so now it's still what I notice every week, but, of course, now I'm noticing different things.

Yes. Because my brain is programmed differently now, and that's the lovely thing about it. And I find that, I don't know, for me it's been, I don't want to say it's easy, but I don't know, if you asked me like a couple of years ago would I have finished two books and be writing my third, I would have gone, oh, no, I can't write a book.

I'm not a writer. I would have said that. Right.

So that's an interesting piece.

[Speaker 2] (24:47 - 26:10)
It really is. And what I love about that, Mijia, there's two really key things that you've said here, and one thing I actually spoke with a client about this yesterday is that you pay, you're very present to what you say. So you're present to what, and you talked about noticing.

I think lots of people actually don't notice the genius that they have. So because they go, oh, I don't know, it's just an opinion, I don't know. But what you do is you notice your thoughts, you notice what you have to say, and then you capture it.

So you've got a way to capture it, whether it's through a video or whatever it might be, and I think what I find when I'm working with people to help them get the, I love the discipline and the routine of capturing your ideas and getting them out, and that's something I think a lot of people really struggle with. But the first step, I always say, you've got to actually notice that you're actually saying stuff all the time. That is your creativity and your problem-solving.

The key is you've just got to get it down. And I think you're a great example of somebody who's very present and notices what you're saying, and these are all practical things. Do you find that you're out, like you say these things or you're talking with clients, do you kind of go, oh, there's a piece of IP in that, there's a video in that?

Yes.

[Speaker 1] (26:10 - 28:43)
How it works? Constantly, every day, three or four times a day. So I continually, you know, I have a space on my phone.

If I can't type, you know, if I'm in the car or something like that, I'll capture it with a memo or I'll just put my video on and I'll use Rev, whatever I'll do. And that's the interesting thing, like a lot of people will say to me, you know, it's been three years, what can you say every week? How do you keep writing like 2,000 words every week?

And I'm like, oh, I could do more, like I have a big thing. And because every day, I don't know, people say stuff to me and I'm like, oh, I love that. Or I read something and I go, oh, that's cool.

I don't know, it's just and it's that, I think it is, it's that presence, it's that and also not being afraid of putting your stuff out there because, again, some people that I think, oh, my goodness, like, you know, you've got so much to say and they just, something stops them, you know, this self-doubt, there's this people will judge it and people ask me, oh, how did you do that first video? And I'm like, oh, I just put the camera up in the lounge room and they're like, they look at me like, did you think about it? I'm like, I didn't even think about it.

I didn't even, you know, and with the books and so forth, it's like, you know what, this is my opinion and these are my thoughts and for what it's worth and I'm going to pop it out there and I get feedback that people are really getting something from it and that's enough for me. That's like, okay, well, that's great, I'm making a difference and just that self-judgment. Yeah.

Self-judgment, you know, before you even put it out there for other people to judge, you know what I mean, and my take is often, you know, it's like I say to the kids when I'm wearing my bikini all the time, like, mum, when are you going to stop wearing a bikini? You know, you're nearly 45. I'm like, never.

Actually, no one cares about me. You know, they're all worrying about themselves on the beach.

[Speaker 2] (28:43 - 28:44)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (28:44 - 29:54)
I can just do my own thing and I'm a bit like that with my work. Yes. You know, like I don't, I've never really suffered from that perfectionist nature.

It just has not been me. I have clients that do so we certainly work on shifting that but putting stuff out there and realising that, like, nothing happens, like, the world doesn't end. The world doesn't end.

Yes. You'll be absolutely, and if you don't get any comments, if you don't get any, that's all right because also we talk about this a lot, Jane, is that so many people are enjoying your work, are listening to it, are watching it, they're taking stuff away and you may never know. And I come across people all the time that go, oh, I love that vlog on this.

And I'm like, or say, oh, I went on your website and watched, and I'm like, okay, good. But you don't know that. So not to be discouraged, just keep doing the work that matters.

That's it. Just keep putting it out there.

[Speaker 2] (29:54 - 30:13)
Yes. Seth Godin calls it emotional labour and he says, you know, you've got to, even if people don't say anything, you don't hear anything back, it's the labour of love or that emotional labour, putting that effort into about serving. It's not even about me.

I'm just the vehicle that makes it happen.

[Speaker 1] (30:14 - 30:28)
I remember Seth in one of Seth's books, I don't know which one it is, looking at my bookshelf, but he talks about just getting on the carousel and picking a horse. That's it. Get on a horse.

So many people just watch the carousel go past.

[Speaker 2] (30:28 - 30:29)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (30:29 - 30:33)
Watching it. He's like, just pick a horse, any horse and get on it.

[Speaker 2] (30:33 - 30:33)
That's right.

[Speaker 1] (30:33 - 31:00)
And I talk to my, you know, my clients and people that are thinking about starting in this, you know, their own business, their own practice, getting their own IP out there. And I say, look, I follow the idea that, you know, I'm going to be somewhat embarrassed by the work and stuff that I'm doing now in five years' time and that's great.

[Speaker 2] (31:00 - 31:00)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (31:01 - 31:06)
Because it means I've grown. Yes. So the work I'm doing now, this is where I'm at.

[Speaker 2] (31:07 - 31:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (31:07 - 31:16)
And this is I think Keith Abraham, when I heard him speak, he said, and this is the perfect space to be. Everything is perfect right now.

[Speaker 2] (31:16 - 31:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (31:17 - 31:24)
So I love some of that stuff. I get so much from all of those people and their ideas and, yeah, so cool.

[Speaker 2] (31:25 - 32:23)
Yeah, and I think those early pieces of work, like if you go back to Seth Godin's, you know, his books, 19 bestsellers, Keith's work and even Matt Church. I remember Matt sharing, so he shared his very first book. We got to see it.

It had his face in the cover and he said, I can't tell you how embarrassed I am about this book. But he said, I said, you know what? I said the permission that gives for me to go, okay, so he didn't start with a wily publishing deal and he didn't start with all that.

I think those pieces of work is, you know, we talk about just ship it, just get it out, just get it going. And that's what I've loved about watching your journey. And for those who know Mija as well, you know that she just does not muck around.

She's ship it, just get it done, gone, it's out. And that's a big part of your message around authenticity, lose the perfection, just ship it, just get it done, which is terrific.

[Speaker 1] (32:23 - 32:42)
Yeah. And it gets, you know, Jane, you've told me this around, it's now I'm starting to get real clarity around the work that I want to do and what I want to be known for. But that, you know, that's taken a couple of years.

But what do you do? Do you sit around for a couple of years until you get the clarity?

[Speaker 2] (32:42 - 32:43)
Do you sit on the beach?

[Speaker 1] (32:45 - 33:24)
Yeah, let's just wait for this epiphany of what I want to do. It's like, no, just start. And then through that action and working with different clients and getting feedback, then you kind of go, right, okay, this is now.

And then that's not even a landing spot for a long time, but you land there for a while. And so I think, yeah, that kind of mindset and thinking that way, of course, keeping it light, the playfulness, all of that with it, just helps, just gets you up in the morning and gets you out there doing the work.

[Speaker 2] (33:25 - 35:12)
It really does. And I think something that you've done really well is, and I want to talk about this with your Midja brand versus Melinda Fisher, you know, one of the things that I've been doing a little bit of work around lately and talking to people about is that you've got to, in a lot of ways to create the lightness, you've got to detach from yourself a little bit, which sounds a bit ethereal and a bit odd. But hold on, you're a personal brand and you need to be fully self-expressive, you need to be authentic and all that sort of stuff.

But, you know, you're showing the facets of you, not everything of you, but it's the parts of you that you want to share that help a message get through that serves others. Can you, I love the idea of, I know for me I had to sort of create this bit of an alter ego type thing. I had to go, okay, there's this Jane Anderson chick and this is kind of what she does.

And just to sort of, you know, turn that into a brand, which is but the helping people, like that brand that you create is what creates the evolution. Like if you're in a fixed mindset and this is what I do and this is what I've always done and that will never change, then of course I'm going to question my value because I'm not going to grow. But if I can grow is that I'm going to be more fluid, I'm happy to adapt, evolve, tweak, change, and you don't know what that will be right from the start.

It's only through doing the work. Can you tell us a bit about, and you must get this question a lot, tell us about the Midja brand. Like how did all that come about and how do you use it and why does it work for you?

Because there's lots of people who go, oh, don't I just use my name? But why do you use the word Midja, your nickname?

[Speaker 1] (35:13 - 35:40)
And so for me, it's a nickname and I got the nickname just from my initials. So when I started in the law firm, everything was just through your initials. So I was Melinda Jill Ault is my maiden name, so M-J-A.

Oh, right, okay. Yeah, so when the admin women came around with the mail every morning, my folder would have M-J-A on it.

[Speaker 2] (35:41 - 35:41)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (35:41 - 39:28)
And so they would pronounce that as Midja. And so it just kind of stuck. So for 20 years, these people called me Midja.

And I remember I actually went and did the first video at my friend's place, Ruth. And Ruth, she owns her own business, a jewelry business with her husband, and they do a lot of videos and that kind of stuff. So she's like, come over.

They had some good lighting and stuff. And I just did a bit of a G-up for the first one. And I introduced myself, the first take of the video, as a high-arm Melinda Fisher.

And I went through it and Ruth said to me, she's like, you're really Midja. And everyone knows you as the Midja. And for me, it's been an interesting one because it's almost like now, it's not really a test, but it's interesting for me, particularly working in corporate about the kind of reaction you get from people because I'll just introduce myself as Midja.

So there's no surname. There's nothing else going on. It's just, hey, I'm Midja.

And people kind of go, excuse me, could you say that again? And I'm like, it's Midja. And they're like, okay.

And it almost gets some people out of their comfort zone even to call me that. So it kind of gets them in that space that I love because they're like, I don't even know what to do with this one name person. And for me, it is a little bit like, as you said, that different person, if you like, because in my family, so, you know, like my sister and my brothers and that, so they all call me Melinda.

So very much it's when I step out, it's Midja. And I've had, you know, some people go, oh, so she thinks she's good enough for one name and that kind of stuff. She's Oprah or Madonna or whatever.

And I'm like, yes, that's correct. That's it. You only need one name.

So I love that. I had a few on my website and Facebook and that, like, what is a Midja? You know, people ask me those sort of things.

But for me, it's memorable. And I've just started to, I think, Jane, in the last month or two, kind of get clearer on, yeah, just, you know, what Midja looks like and what she kind of wears. And I think you're right there.

Not in a way that's like I'm disguising myself as someone else. But I think, you know, just like the athlete, you know, before they go on the track or, you know, you kind of put that uniform on and there's something about that. Yes.

And I've found in the last couple of months just getting clearer on that has helped me kind of really step into the space more. Yeah. Yeah, that's something we've spoken about.

It's something I know you do really well and I've seen others do well and it's making a difference.

[Speaker 2] (39:29 - 40:28)
Yeah, and it can be a useful thing. So, you know, if you're called something else in your family, like that's kind of the people who probably see the all of you. But if you, you know, I definitely come across people who have personally branded businesses who have got, they might be called the same name.

Like they might be called Jane Anderson, which is the same for me. But having this other, like it's not a separate identity and it's not inauthentic. It's just a version or parts of me that get seen but are amplified.

And I guess I can kind of step out of that. And sometimes detaching like that can be useful because it allows you to evolve and mould that brand the way that you need it to without questioning your value, your identity, overthinking it too much and keeping it commercially smart as well, isn't it?

[Speaker 1] (40:29 - 42:00)
Yeah, I think so. I definitely think so. And, you know, it's all about, you know, I think we all, you know, you've got to find that energy and that passion and what you bring to your work and to your clients and all of that.

But the flip side of that where we then recharge our energy is often the opposite. You know, so for the extroverts, for those of us that are extroverts and get our energy from people during the day and stuff, then, you know, often the flip side of that will recharge us. So, you know, just writing.

People sometimes say to me, geez, you write a lot. It doesn't seem like you, you know, because you're sort of life at the party and you're always out with people. I'm like, yeah, but that's the flip side of it.

Right. And so that's the quiet space then where it's just me and my laptop and my coffee. Yeah.

And then the next day we're on and we're up and this is what we're doing. So, yeah, for me having just some triggers now around, yeah, the self-talk, around what happens here before I go on, before I'm and I did some work over at Disney and I did a course at the Disney Institute and I loved when they spoke about, like, being on stage and being front of house. Yeah.

And then back of house.

[Speaker 2] (42:00 - 42:01)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (42:01 - 42:50)
And, you know, not that they, not that you're a different person, but there's a different energy you bring. Yes. And as soon as you're front of house, then you're representing the brand, of course.

You're representing Disney or you're representing midger or you're doing that. Yes. And then, of course, you know, when you're backstage and you're behind the scenes, then, yeah, you can, yeah, there's that other piece of you.

Yeah. And only those people kind of closest to you, to you see. And, you know, people, yeah, there's a brand and there's expectations around that.

Yes. And, yeah, it's important, I think, that people see that. When they meet you, they see that.

Yeah, so for me, I've been doing a little bit of work on that in the last couple of months. Yeah, right. It's helped.
[Speaker 2] (42:51 - 43:23)
And Midja, so for people who are thinking about either they've transitioned out into their own brand or people who are stepping up and, you know, starting to build their personal brand, and in particular women, what advice would you have for them? Like if you had your time again, if you think back to when you started all this, what advice would you have for them if you had your time again, you know, geez, I wish I did this, or what would you say to them?

[Speaker 1] (43:25 - 45:59)
I think I would say around just get started. Yeah. So just, you know, pick that horse and get on it.

So get started. I have two mantras this year, so two things that I, you know, are front of mind for me. And one of them is to play the bigger game.

So I love that, just to think big. And secondly is have the audacity to ask. Right.

And I think sometimes, particularly for women, there can be just this, well, I'll just sit back. You know, again, that I'm waiting for permission, I'm waiting for someone to ring me. You know, we're sort of polite, we're waiting.

And so this year for me, and I wish I would have done this earlier, I suppose, is just ask. You know, just get out there and ask. And also to really build your network.

And I talk to women about this now, even women that are within organisations still within corporate, but they have a little bit of a niggle happening, they can feel it. So I say to them, start now. You know, start getting your ideas down.

Start seeking out, you know, a mentor, a coach. Start spreading your network. You know, start getting out there and talking to people and building, you know, this real connection with people.

Because it's something I didn't do. I was so busy with a day-to-day job. And very, you know, insular looking, very, you know, this is my gang and this is the people that I'm in.

And I don't know, for me it's just been a whole new world. I don't even know any of these people are out there or that they existed. Or that you can even find them.

Yeah, how do you find them and all of this stuff. So I would suggest that as well is to just, yeah, spend some time for you, you know, carve out some time that you can be thinking about what next for you. Yeah.

And start that now.

[Speaker 2] (46:00 - 46:35)
Yeah. There's so much you can do before you leave a job. You know, it freaks me out when people go, oh, I resigned last week.

I'm ready to start. Oh, no. I love that.

There's so much you can do while you still are in a job before you're making your transition. You know, and I think that's such great advice. Build your network.

Start getting your ideas down. Network, like I said, get mentors. Get people around you who have done what you're thinking of doing.

I think that's such great advice.

[Speaker 1] (46:36 - 46:43)
Because then you're sort of, you know, you're halfway down the track already. You're not starting from a standing still position.

[Speaker 2] (46:43 - 46:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (46:46 - 47:01)
Exactly. Yeah. So, and it doesn't take a lot, just, you know, even a couple of, you know, even weekly practices, a couple of weekly practices that you just put in place, I think can make a big difference.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (47:01 - 47:24)
And so, Mija, tell us about your book writing machine. You have created your confidence book, which is terrific, which is particularly for female leaders. But your latest one, which is Great Lawyer to Great Leader, tell us about that and like who is it targeted for?

Like how do you work with it with clients and things like that?

[Speaker 1] (47:24 - 49:31)
Yeah. So this was the book for me, I suppose, that was just a lot of work that I've done in the past and things I've noticed within the legal profession. And like most industries, you know, impacted by technology and AI, by really being like a global market now and a global industry.

So lots of overseas competitors coming into the Australian market, a lot of online, legal chatbots, all that kind of stuff happening. And I was just at a law firm this week, actually. I was at Merthyr Law this week and did a presentation for their partners and lawyers.

And, you know, really we were talking about what is it going to take to thrive in the legal industry moving forward. And, you know, for me, it's this big piece around leadership and what's often happened and certainly, you know, sort of what happened to me as well in my career is you're a great lawyer. And so people go, well, now you get to lead a team.

Yes. And I did the practice management course a couple of weeks ago at the Queensland Law Society and one of the participants, a woman, and she'd just been made partner at one of the large law firms. And she was like, I've got no idea what I'm doing.

She said, you know, I'm a great technical lawyer, but now I've got this team and they're all looking at me. And I often ask lawyers, how long have you spent on your legal technical training? And they're like, well, 20 years.

I did four years of law school and then I did my articles or, you know, a practice course and then I've, you know, done all my CPD points and all of that. And then I say, well, how long have you spent practicing to be a leader?

[Speaker 2] (49:31 - 49:31)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (49:33 - 49:50)
Well, they just gave me the job title and I'm like, well, okay. So, and again, for me, it's a bit like what we were saying before around opening your own practice. What I would love to see is that lawyers building their technical skills and their leadership skills concurrently.

Right.

[Speaker 2] (49:51 - 49:53)
Not too technical. And then.

[Speaker 1] (49:53 - 50:12)
Yeah. And then suddenly I'm in this, I've been practicing for 10 years and now I've got to lead a team. And law firms are telling me that, you know, their people and culture teams are telling me that they don't have enough ready now leaders.

There's gaps and trying to fill those gaps is just tough. And then you're backpedaling.

[Speaker 2] (50:13 - 50:13)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (50:13 - 50:15)
Trying to backfill.

[Speaker 2] (50:16 - 50:21)
And so along the way too, don't you? Cause they just go, oh, you know, I'm not getting anywhere.

[Speaker 1] (50:22 - 51:06)
Yeah, that's right. And you know what I spoke about, like, the first thing I spoke about was I want people to feel great on a Monday morning and a lot of leaders are kind of going, look, they couldn't pay me enough money to do this. Like I don't want to lead people.

Why would anyone want to? That really makes me so sad because I think it's, it's such a privilege to lead and you can make such a difference, but without the right support and tools and skills that I think certainly, you know, you can, you can learn, but without that opportunity, people are thrown in and then they feel like a failure.

[Speaker 2] (51:06 - 51:07)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (51:07 - 51:20)
And particularly I think with lawyers and probably other professionals as well, when you've been so good at what you do, you know, when you're in your thirties, forties, fifties, and you've been so good at what you do to then be incompetent at something.

[Speaker 2] (51:20 - 51:21)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (51:21 - 51:34)
It blows the ego. I don't want to do this anymore because I look stupid and I'm giving bad feedback and I just want to go back to servicing my clients and, and doing that.

[Speaker 2] (51:35 - 51:35)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (51:36 - 52:24)
When they have so much expertise and so much skills, it's just that, you know, it's a different mindset. There's a different way of communicating, you know, the coaching, you know, the mentoring, the cultural leadership, all of that is just it's just a transition that needs to happen. And so with this book and with the program I run in law firms, yeah, it's about, it's about making that transition for lawyers.

Right. And so then we, we end up with a law firm with, you know, strong leadership. And we also then have this emerging talent and emerging leaders coming through the law firm as well.

So we've got that succession planning going on.

[Speaker 2] (52:24 - 53:41)
Okay. Yeah. I think it's so needed.

I haven't seen anything like this really out in the market. And I think you've really identified something really you know, that taps into your credibility and your expertise and your knowledge and your history has brought in then your future of where you add the greatest value, what you want to be known for, and is your most authentic self as well as serving an audience that needs your help. I think those three things and are such a great example of here's what a great job looks like of launching programs, launching a practice and around your knowledge, expertise, personal brand.

And sometimes it's easy to create programs that are crusades or things that we want to change the planet or when you go, actually, you know what, there's a market right here. These people, you've got expertise, you've got positioning. They even know who Midger is.

That can be so valuable. And sometimes we overlook, it's really easy for people starting out to overlook some of the markets that are actually really just ripe and ready for them straight away. So Midger, so if people want to get hold of your book, if they want to get in touch with you, where would you like them to go?

[Speaker 1] (53:42 - 54:09)
Yeah, perfect. So they can obviously jump on my website. So it's Midger, it's midja.com.au. Yes. And also you'll find me on LinkedIn as well and you can email me. It's just midja at midja.com.au. All right. Love to hear from people and, yeah, certainly the books are available on my website as well.

[Speaker 2] (54:10 - 55:08)
All right, terrific. I'd really encourage anyone who, you know, if you're thinking about, you know, either working with Midger or seeing how she's been able to build her brand, I'd really encourage you to connect with her, even sign up for her newsletter, what she does and the knowledge and expertise she shares is fantastic, super practical. And I love that when you watch Midger's work, she just chooses one aspect of, you know, I think what happens sometimes is we get a bit caught up in there's so much here of this area of my expertise.

And if you watch Midger, she's so consistent. She puts a piece of IP out every week and it's generally something that she's come across during that week. She's had a conversation with someone.

So it's real world and very grounded and practical. And I know I forwarded Midger's newsletter on to a lot of people. So I think if you can tap in to learn from Midger, I think you'll do yourself a big favour.

So thanks so much for joining us today, Midger.

[Speaker 1] (55:08 - 55:10)
Thanks, Jane. Thanks so much. Great to talk.