Episode 34- Interview with Productivity Expert Donna McGeorge

25 Jun

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Donna and I talk about her journey in building her personal brand, what makes her unique in a big category she's playing in, and how important it is to be clear on your content for people to easily refer or buy you.

Donna McGeorge is a speaker, author and mentor who helps people make their work work. She is the author of five books, the most recent is ‘The 25-Minute Meeting: Half the Time, Double the Impact,’ published by John Wiley.

You can find Donna here:

donnamcgeorge.com
25minutemeetings.com

Key Takeaways from Today’s Episode:

Jane Anderson introduces herself as the host of the podcast "Jane Anderson Brand New Show," aimed at helping experts enhance their impact, influence, and income in their careers or businesses. She highlights the importance of personal connection in business interactions and expresses gratitude to the listeners for tuning in. Jane shares updates about her recent activities, mentioning the hot weather in Brisbane and her engagements in helping organizations build the personal brands of their leaders. She emphasizes the shift in talent acquisition strategies towards leveraging leaders' personal brands due to the limitations of traditional methods in a globalized job market. Jane also discusses her upcoming Women with Influence program roadshow, focusing on strategic networking to enhance personal branding and attract talent. Additionally, she promotes upcoming events and coaching programs for women interested in improving their personal brands and business outcomes.

Overall, Jane sets the stage for the podcast episode, providing insights into her recent endeavors and the upcoming interview with Donna McGeorge, a productivity expert and author of "25 Minute Meetings." She emphasizes the significance of personal branding and strategic networking in professional success, setting the tone for the subsequent conversation with Donna.
Donna McGeorge elaborates on her professional focus and branding strategy, emphasizing her dedication to helping middle managers navigate the challenges between leadership and operational tasks within organizations. She identifies the struggle with productivity in common workplace activities like meetings and discusses her passion for addressing these issues to enhance workplace effectiveness. Donna highlights the significance of catering to the needs of middle managers, who often receive limited investment in learning and development compared to other organizational levels. She explains her motivation behind writing "25 Minute Meetings," aiming to provide practical solutions for individuals struggling with time constraints and inefficient meetings. Donna underscores the importance of offering accessible and applicable solutions to empower individuals in their daily work routines.
Jane Anderson acknowledges the impact of Donna's approach in promoting consciousness of time management through the concept of 25-minute meetings. They discuss the practicality and effectiveness of adopting shorter meeting durations, which prompts individuals to reconsider default meeting structures and prioritize efficient communication. They explore the potential benefits of implementing unconventional meeting start times to encourage punctuality and enhance productivity within organizations.
Donna reflects on her decision-making process in selecting the topic of "25 Minute Meetings" for her book, acknowledging the competitive landscape within the productivity and management genre. She explains her strategic approach in narrowing down her target audience to middle managers and addressing their specific pain points related to time management and meetings. Donna discusses the importance of finding a unique angle within a saturated market, focusing on a "thin slice" approach to differentiate her work and appeal to a specific audience segment. Jane praises Donna's consistency in branding and messaging across social media platforms, highlighting the importance of maintaining coherence in communication to resonate with the target audience effectively. They emphasize the value of clear positioning and messaging in establishing a distinct personal brand and driving engagement with the audience.
Donna McGeorge and Jane Anderson delve into the significance of clear positioning and branding in facilitating ease of purchase and referral within professional contexts. Donna highlights the importance of being easy to buy and refers to her experience in being referred more frequently after narrowing her focus to meetings. She emphasizes the value of clarity in messaging and positioning, enabling individuals to distinguish themselves within competitive markets. Jane underscores the importance of conveying uniqueness and human connection in branding to foster relatability and engagement with the audience.
Donna discusses the origins of her "Teacup Chronicles," a personal branding initiative that combines her love for tea with showcasing picturesque environments. Initially intended to share glimpses of her life with her social media network, the Teacup Chronicles gained traction after receiving positive feedback from followers. Donna reflects on the consistency and engagement fostered through this initiative, which has evolved to include commentary and physical high tea events. Jane highlights the importance of creating unique experiences for brand engagement and lead generation, citing the Teacup Chronicles as an example of adding a personal touch to branding efforts.
Donna and Jane emphasize the importance of physical interaction and personal connection in brand building, particularly in the realm of business-to-business (B2B) relationships. They discuss the value of face-to-face meetings and physical events in establishing trust and deepening client relationships. Donna shares her experience of leveraging the Teacup Chronicles as an entree for reconnecting with clients and fostering genuine interactions. Jane underscores the necessity of human connection in driving meaningful engagement and business growth, particularly in B2B contexts where personal relationships play a pivotal role in decision-making processes.
As the conversation draws to a close, Jane prompts Donna to share where listeners can find more information about her work and how they can engage further. Donna directs interested individuals to her website, donnamcgeorge.com, which provides insights into her story, upcoming events, and resources related to her book, "The 25 Minute Meeting." She also highlights the dedicated website for her book, 25minutemeeting.com, where readers can purchase the book and access free templates mentioned within it. Additionally, Donna mentions her presence on social media platforms, including a specialized Facebook group for "The 25 Minute Meeting." Despite the book's current stock status in bookstores, Donna assures that orders can be placed directly through her website. Jane concludes the conversation by expressing gratitude for Donna's insights and congratulating her on her success, underscoring the impact of Donna's work in empowering individuals and organizations.
In closing, Donna expresses her pleasure in participating in the discussion and thanks Jane for the opportunity. Jane reciprocates the gratitude and extends her appreciation for Donna's contributions to the conversation. The exchange reflects mutual respect and appreciation for the insights shared during their interaction.

Full Show Transcript:

[Speaker 1] (0:09 - 12:29)
Hi there, my name is Jane Anderson and this is the Jane Anderson Brand New Show. It's the podcast for experts who want to have greater impact, influence and income for their businesses and careers. As experts, we know that people buy from people and work with people who they know, who they like and who they trust.

So I'm so glad you're here because it's that time again now to really amplify how you show up in the world. Hi there and welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming along today or for downloading the podcast.

I'm really excited that you're here and really grateful you've taken the time to do that. So what have I been doing over the last couple of weeks? Well, I'm in Brisbane, so Brisbane in Queensland, and there's no doubt about it, but this summer is going to be hot.

So the last few days have been pretty warm, so we're getting up to 35 degrees already and we haven't even hit summer yet. So the joys of living in the tropics, that's for sure. So otherwise, other than that, I've been on the road and out working with organisations and helping them to be able to build the personal brands of their leaders.

I mean, they already have personal brands, whether they like it or not, but really tapping into and leveraging the influence that they have as leaders to be able to attract great talent. So I've been out building LinkedIn profiles and LinkedIn strategy for organisations and really helping them to find talent because the old ways of attracting talent just don't work anymore, like being able to put job ads on job sites and things like that. And that's like, okay, if you're looking for talent pools that there's a large range of them.

But the challenge is that we're in a globalised space. So particularly like in this case, it's mining. So in their case, they're working in a global market.

A lot of people outside of Australia don't know that some of the job sites exist that are here. And so we have to go over onto platforms and help them to know, how do I reach out to these people? How do I find them?

What do I say? So suddenly leaders are becoming far more relied upon around skills shortages to become recruiters and really tap into their networks. I remember reading a survey a few years ago that it was by Right Management Survey that said 40% of people who got their next job got it as a result of somebody that they know.

And I think that's still true. And in the mining industry, that's a different game altogether because the market is so tight. So that's been great.

I love being able to really tap into the personal brands and leverage them because at the end of the day, you're going to be working for that leader anyway. So it's good if you kind of get to that person becomes the access point to the business. So very excited for the clients I'm working with at the moment.

They're being really innovative and thinking differently to be able and creatively to come up with new ways of attracting and retaining great talent, which is cool. Other than that, this month, the big focus that I'm working on at the moment is the Women with Influence program, which I run. So this is for women who are experts in their field and building their personal brand.

And I'm doing a roadshow at the moment. So I'll kick off with Brisbane tomorrow night. We've got a full house in Brisbane tomorrow.

I think we've got 17 people coming, which will be terrific. And we've got Adelaide and Sydney coming up next week and then Melbourne the following week. So that'll wrap up this year for the Women with Influence dinners.

So I'll be the topic I'm going to be talking about is strategic networking. Because I don't know if you find this, but I find when I'm working with people and I was the same. I said I had to work this out the hard way.

It's just being able to put it into a into a model. But when I built the Influencer Indicator, I started off doing that work with people to be able to increase their leads. But it was really from a leader's perspective and being able to have a real strategy behind building that network.

So whether it was clients you're already working with, whether it was attracting new people into your world. And it also it doesn't matter whether you're in your own business or whether you're in someone else's businesses. That was really key to being able to increase that circle of people around you.

So the dinners are coming up. So if you're looking for those, we've got Adelaide and Sydney are on on the I think it's the 13th and 15th of November. And then we have Melbourne on the 22nd of November.

And then we also have the Women with Influence Program, which is coming up to the Strategy Day. We have that coming up on the 30th of November. And I have three spots left.

It's a mastermind essentially for 15 women. I've got 12 at the moment. So we have three spots left ready for 2019.

And again, these are women who are building their personal brand, generally turning over a revenue of somewhere under $120,000 and aiming to double that in the next 12 months. And we meet every quarter. We have a Strategy Day.

We do a strategy session when we start this. We have our Facebook group and communicate a lot. We have events and catch up together, which is really, really great.

And I think a big part of being able to grow your personal branding business is finding your 15. Like finding the 15 people who have, unlike a board of directors around you, can help you to make decisions in your best interest. So if you're interested in finding out more about that, then, and equally with the Women with Influence Dinners, the Women with Influence Dinners, if you go to jane-anderson.com, and then if you go to the events page, you'll see all the events coming up there, anything that's coming up in the future will be there. And equally, if you're interested in joining us for the Women with Influence Coaching Program, not group mastermind, you can go to the Jane-Anderson website. And then if you go under Programs, you'll be able to see where it says Experts. And under there, there's the Women with Influence Program.

So you're welcome to find out everything there. And happy for you to reach out to our team. I'm more than happy to have a chat with you to see if it's the right fit.

And if it's not, that's totally fine. And I'll be honest and share with you my thoughts and if it's not the right fit too. So it's not for everybody, but happy to have a chat with you about that.

So in order to get ready for today's interview, I want to share with you a little bit about who this lady is. So Donna McGeorge, I met Donna, I think it must have been five years ago, I think, four years ago. So Donna and I have both been on faculty in Thought Leaders Business School, and she's a productivity expert and I'm a personal branding expert.

But I spent five years as a productivity expert or productivity consultant working with a company called PEP Worldwide. PEP have their programs distributed across the world. They've been around for a long time, 30 years in, I think, 30 countries.

So they've been around a really long time. And it was life changing. It was like when I worked with them, I was like, this is the most amazing thing I've ever done.

So I've always had a really deep respect since doing that work on helping people achieve their potential with their productivity. It was something that I had to really learn because I wasn't very good at it. And for those who work with me now know that I obsess over productivity a little bit.

But Donna's a wonderful friend. She's achieved a lot and I've supported her in her own business and her business manager in implementing the Expert to Influencer program. We did some intensive work and we did the Expert to Influencer coaching program, which I usually do with people who have a practice that is generally turning over 500,000 plus.

And because at that point they're starting to work out, OK, well, we're kind of busy, but now we need efficiency and we need to make sure it's sustainable to take us to the next stage. And a big part of that is also positioning. So positioning and productivity are the two big things that happen at that time.

So I worked with Donna and her team. And so when you go to look at Donna's site, you'll see the process and the system she has in place and that she's working on. But the big news for her is that she has written a book, 25 Minute Meetings, which I just love this title, because when I was out working with people with their productivity, I just found that when I set their meetings to 25 minutes, it created real conscious choice.

Like it created this conversation with people going, why is she doing a 25 minute meeting? Why is it 25? It's, oh, there's only like three minutes left.

And it made people really aware of their time and it generated more conscious awareness of exactly how much time people had. And they got a lot more done. They moved through the meeting quicker.

They got information quicker and companies were able to get a lot more, through a lot more in a day. I just found it made a massive difference. So I'm a huge fan of this book for Donna.

I know the impact it's had, shifting to 25 minutes, even working with my own clients and seeing that happen. And Donna is well and truly on track for building, she's already built a really powerful personal brand and it's just going from strength to strength. So I'm very excited to be able to share her with you today.

And Donna's been very generous in helping us to, you know, go under the bonnet a little bit in her practice. She's very open and has shared her journey. So I hope you enjoy listening to her thoughts and insights around building your personal brand as much as I have.

So I hope you enjoy it. Have a fantastic rest of the week and make sure you stay tuned for the next interviews coming up on the podcast. I'll talk to you soon.

Bye for now. All right. So welcome to the Jane Anderson Brand You Show, where we talk all things personal branding.

And because we believe that people buy from people and they buy from people who they know, who they like and who they trust, of course. So I'm super excited that you are here today because we have a very, very, very special guest. One of my wonderful friends and experts and thought leaders in part of my world and who I admire greatly.

So a very special guest today is Donna McGeorge. She is a speaker and author and mentor, and she helps people make their work work. So she uses a practical, creative approach and she improves workplace effectiveness whilst challenging thinking on leadership, productivity and virtual work.

Donna is the author of, get this, five books. The most recent is her book, The 25 Minute Meeting, Half the Time, Double the Impact, published by Wiley. Please welcome the amazing Donna McGeorge.
Yay! I feel like there should be a big applause there at that moment. There is.

All the hordes are clapping. And so it's like you're on stage. So I just imagine that we're doing that instead.

Anyway, so Donna, super excited that you are here today. You and I have been friends for some time and I am always in awe of what you create and the people you work with, the results you get for people. And you're on this absolute trajectory of world domination of this mission at the moment, which is around your positioning around productivity.

You have got your new book, 25 Minute Meetings, that we're going to talk about. But one of the things we do on this show is we get to kind of go a little bit behind the scenes and understand a little bit about how experts like Donna build a personal brand like the Donna McGeorge personal brand. So, Donna, tell us a bit about your practice, what you do, who you help and how your practice works.

[Speaker 2] (12:30 - 12:36)
Sure. So I've been at this a while now. I've just realised I'm coming up on 20 years being in my own practice.

[Speaker 1] (12:37 - 12:37)
An overnight success.

[Speaker 2] (12:39 - 14:51)
Sorry? An overnight success. Yeah, total overnight success.

And how that's come, you know, the thinking of 20 years has suddenly got me thinking, I think I need a sabbatical or some long service leave or something like that. So it's time for a break. But I realise it's been quite an interesting journey to get to where I am.

So it started out, I thought, as a business where I was going to, you know, create a training business and have a bunch of trainers who work for me. And we were going into organisations to train people, mostly in that area of personal productivity or personal skill, what sometimes people refer to as soft skills in organisations. And I didn't really like the business element of it.

I quite like it being just the Donna McGeorge show. And I joke around a little bit that despite what I do with groups, I actually don't play nicely with others. So I much prefer the practice model, which is just all about me, so that evolves over time.

And I've dipped in and out of corporates. I've done a couple of assignments where I was closer to the client. So either working very closely for a long period of time or actually going into a client for a couple of years.

So I've done that just to test my stuff and make sure I'm still relevant in there. But really, I would say my practice has, again, still not overnight. I would say over the past five years, I've put a concentrated effort into it to decide what is Donna McGeorge?

What is my branding? What is my positioning? Who do I help?

And so I've been very clear, despite being kind of, you know, I've tested a few things. I'm very clear that I'm about helping the fattest part of the org chart, which is largely where middle managers are, who are sandwiched between leaders and strategy and then the operational elements of their work. And I think that's my sweet spot in organisations.

So I work with them around and I'm absolutely passionate about saying, you know, we spend so much time at work. Yes. What are the things that stop it from being, you know, fun or engaging or whatever?

And it's usually the simple things like meetings. Meetings. Hence this book.

And so that's what I want to do is help those middle managers show up, play nicely and get the job done in effect.

[Speaker 1] (14:52 - 15:57)
And that part of the organisation, like you said, it's the fattest part. And it's also, I don't know about you, but my experience is that they're often the ones that are lost in amongst the professional development. You know, my background was an L&D manager and sorting out where budgets go to build certain programs.

And, you know, sometimes they're not necessarily involved in the hypo type programs or they're just wanting to come to work, do a great job, get stuff done. And quite often that's often sometimes a bit missed in the budget or that we know that we need to do something, but we don't really know what to do. And so something like this, I know when I was working in productivity, like the concept of a 25 minute meeting is so empowering for somebody at that level in the organisation because it's something practical I can do as well as get results.

And I'm taking the lead without necessarily having to be on a high performance, big executive leadership growth program. Is that what you find?

[Speaker 2] (15:57 - 17:15)
Yeah, for me, that's and that's exactly the the angle when I wrote the book was I wanted to zero in on who I didn't want it to be about, you know, you've got to change the culture of meetings or make it big or whatever I wanted to write it for. I'm a manager. I could be a new manager.

I could even just may not even have the title manager, just an employee who is struggling with the always the got to do more with less. Right. Which is what we're asking people all the time to do.

And and and what can I give them? What can I give them just to help them every day? So that was that was that.

But, you know, you make an interesting point. I can't remember. I read something just this week on social media or someone might have sent me an article on.

They are the most underdeveloped and underinvested from a learning and development perspective group. So they're given a little bit to help them. They're probably thrown performance management and feedback training right before feedback's due on the annual people cycle or whatever it is.

They might get a two day leadership program tick. You've done that. Yes.

And it could be another 10 years before they're on, say, a high pile or something like that. So in that 10 years, they can do a lot of damage or good. Depending on how well they develop.

So I hear you. This is I wanted this to be a book that could be easily read and accessible and applied.

[Speaker 1] (17:16 - 17:45)
Yeah. And I think you're certainly achieving that. I know that, you know, the concept of that 25 minute meeting kind of going, oh, hold on.

My boss just sent me a meeting for 25 minutes. Is there something wrong with Outlook? What is this?

Did you get this meeting? Why is it 25 minutes? So it kind of creates this consciousness of time, doesn't it?

Rather than the by default of the half hours in the hours.

[Speaker 2] (17:45 - 19:15)
Yeah, that's exactly it. And so in this book, I talked about we operate so much on default. So even, you know, the idea that I need there's three people that I need to ask for some information on.

So the default is I'll call a meeting and it'll be an hour in everyone's diary. And so for me, it's, well, what if we just consciously, first of all, decide, I do I need a meeting? Could I just make three phone calls and get the information I need?

If I do need a meeting, does it have to be an hour? What would happen if it was 25 minutes? And there's some real science behind the 25.

And it comes from Francesco Cirillo's work in the Pomodoro method and those sort of things to, you know, to say that's a good period of time to focus on. And then if I do happen to have, and I don't recommend this, but if I had to have back to back meetings, at least I've got five minutes to get a drink of water, go to the bathroom, grab a bite to eat or mentally prepare myself, you know, move on from one meeting to the next. And so I would love to see, and you're right, that curiosity.

There was a really interesting article when I was researching for that book, for the book around punctuality and how it's a bit of a problem in organisations. And one of the suggestions they said was, what if you created meetings that started at like 1.17, as opposed to 1 o'clock or 1.30 or whatever. So, and that creates again that, oh, why is it starting at 1.17?

It's just a different way and a non-default way of getting people to show up on time.

[Speaker 1] (19:15 - 19:46)
Yeah, I love it. I think you've just really tapped into something. It's such a narrow area, like not only meetings, but to go into 25 minute meetings.

When you look at your brand and positioning and then choosing this book that you've got category and then we go into the title, do you want to share a little bit about your journey in terms of like, why didn't you just choose a book about productivity or why didn't you just choose a book about meetings?

[Speaker 2] (19:48 - 21:24)
It's interesting. So, it's been a long time getting here. I was chatting to someone recently who was saying, oh, you know, I'd love to be a thought leader or an expert and I'm waiting for the divine inspiration to hit me about what I'm an expert in.

And I laughed as well. And I said, I think you'll be waiting a long time because I don't actually know anyone that was just sitting one day and suddenly got divine inspiration about what they wanted to do. It's more likely an evolution of thinking and ideas.

And mine certainly has been that. And so, I've dipped my toe into a number of places and I suppose it takes a bit of, you know, a bit of courage and persistence. I'll try this.

Does it work? No. Okay, well, then I'll try something else.

But it's always been around what, for me, the overarching thing is making work, work. Spend so much time there. And so, when I started thinking about, and to be honest to you and your listeners, when I wanted to do this book, I wanted it to be a Wiley book.

I wanted to pitch it to a mainstream publisher. I wanted to be on bookshelves across Australia. I specifically wanted to be in airports.

And so, I knew that it had to have an angle. And you're right, there's, you know, when I go into the category of productivity, there are dozens of amazing people in there. And, you know, most of us who are working on new productivity are still competing with The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, which is still relevant and a great book.

And so, it's a hard category to crack. Yes. And then it was through my relationship with Matt Church that I first understood the idea of the really thin slice.

[Speaker 1] (21:24 - 21:24)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (21:24 - 22:08)
And so, if my larger category is making work, work, and then my slightly smaller is being around productivity for middle managers. I'm not going after leadership development or grad development. It's middle manager productivity.

And then I thought about meetings. And I thought, what is it that would really make a difference? Because what do they always complain about?

They don't have enough time and the meetings are crap. So, what if I could halve their time and improve the value of the meetings? Boom, 25-minute meetings.

Now, to some extent, it feels like that was a, oh, kind of moment. It actually wasn't. It was that kind of thing, like constantly thinking.

Yes. What's the angle? What's the slice?

What's the problem I'm really trying to solve? Or, to your words, how do I really help people in a place where there is real pain?

[Speaker 1] (22:09 - 22:56)
Yeah, and we often talk about tapping into, you know, it's all about empathy. It's all about really understanding and paying attention. Like, that's years of you listening.

Like, listening to what are the constant, the repetitive things that you hear people say. And like what you said, you didn't have necessarily the lightning bolt of you need to be doing 25-minute meetings. It's just years of experience of now compressed into something that's commercially smart that you can put in front of people.

Now, I get exactly not only what Donna brings, but what makes her unique in a category that's a big category to be playing in. So, I really like that.

[Speaker 2] (22:58 - 23:32)
For the folks at home who are listening in, I reckon that's one of the most intimidating things is when you operate in a category. And then you go into a bookshop and you just see how many people are already in that category. And it's how can you cut through that?

So, the first thing is I want to be super clear. My book is a productivity book and I get that I'm in that category or it's a management book and there's a gazillion of those. And you may not always be able to come up with that cut-through moment like 25-minute meetings.

But be okay to be in a category as well as long as you're clear on your category.

[Speaker 1] (23:32 - 23:33)
That's right.

[Speaker 2] (23:33 - 24:17)
So, I often say to people, you know, it's a gazillion leadership books. That's okay. Then it's not your leadership book and it's not your angle and it's not your thing.

So, if you can get the cut through on the thin slice, that's great. So, to give you an example, I've got colleagues who are into coaching and that's a massive category. And then they think, oh, well, I'll narrow it and say, I'll teach leaders how to coach.

That's another super large category. What is it that you typically do? And one of them said, oh, I reckon I ask really great questions.

And I said, then I think that's the thin slice, you know, coaching questions for cut through or something. And that's what I think. So, when you're thinking about your stuff, be okay to be in a big category.

Just get narrower and narrower and narrower until you get your, that's what I do that's different.

[Speaker 1] (24:18 - 24:56)
I love that. Because it's so much more targeted. Like in your copy, like if you look at how, if you go on to Donna's, she's got Instagram and LinkedIn.

Like everything is so nice and neat and consistent. Because that aperture, I suppose, when you cut right down, means the language is unique when you're articulating your value, who you help. And so, the more cut through that you get when people are trying to grasp the concept of, is this relevant for me?

And then if they can see that relevance, then they're more likely to take the action. So, I love that.

[Speaker 2] (24:57 - 26:21)
I'm just wondering, who might I have learned consistency in social media from? I wonder. Because I have to say, since, you know, I don't mean this to be the whole, like, oh, thank God for Jane Anderson.

But quite frankly, thank God for Jane Anderson. Because it was that consistency of message. And it's funny, because I have another product that I am playing with at the moment called Permission Granted, which came from a conversation with you a long time ago.

And I was just about to launch it and start doing the social media on that. But I realized the messaging is quite different to 25-minute meetings. And the audience is quite different too.

Same, same, but different audience and a different message. And I've decided to shelve that for 12 months. Because even though I think it's a great product and it's really cool.

And I might just soft, you know, soft launch it. But right now, you're right, my social media is so clean across all platforms. And the language is good.

And I'm getting the traction around it. I'd nearly be foolish to go, oh, everyone, I'm done with 25-minute meetings. Now I'm about, you know.

And I think sometimes that's a mistake we make. And this has been almost a year doing this. I probably started writing the book in November last year and talking about meetings.

It's been a year to get to here. And I don't think I'm even close yet to really leveraging this at this point.

[Speaker 1] (26:22 - 27:08)
Yeah, I just think that's great. And we see so many who are, you know, I'll often have people who come to me who will say, oh, I need to make myself different because I'm in, I do leadership development. And there's every man and his dog is a leadership development expert or an executive coach.

And they think that that's their mode of delivery is the problem. And it's not the mode of delivery that's the problem. It's the category needs to be right because we need to understand what part of the budget you sit in, in the L&D budget when we're paying for people like you.

If you've got, you know, if you're an expert in basket weaving, it's probably not on the shopping list to be able to buy you. So that category is important. But then chunking right down to what is it that you do differently.

So I love that. And a big part. Sorry, go ahead.

[Speaker 2] (27:08 - 28:18)
No, no, it's about being easy to buy. So I'm super easy for organizations to buy. Oh, you do meetings.

Our meetings suck. Can we buy you? Yes.

But not only that, I've become, I really underestimated the value of being easy to refer. Right. And so when you're in a category that says I'm into leadership development, a thousand people go, me too.

And all my mates, all my mates are in leadership development. Yes. And then I say, well, okay.

And I do a bit of executive coaching. So do we. So why would they refer me when they do that work themselves?

But then when I say, look, I'm just all about making sure our meetings are right. They go, Oh, I don't play in that space. Go right ahead.

And so now I'm getting all the referrals from a whole bunch of my colleagues. Who never did before. Not that we didn't, not that we competed against each other.

Cause we still used to refer work from time to time to each other. But seriously, I've now the meetings lady. And so it's just so much easier for people to refer.

And it's very easy for me to buy rather than this vague nebulous. I'm a leadership person who helps people work better, or I'm a coach that helps people get outcomes. Yet you and every other sucker.

So it's, it's about really being clear on you. Right. Not the mode, the content.

[Speaker 1] (28:19 - 29:34)
The content. And then we go into that uniqueness of you, you know, what is the experience of being around Donna McGeorge? What is the experience of being in Donna McGeorge's training room?

Cause now we're talking about a whole new level of not just uniqueness on message, but overlay that with the uniqueness of Donna and bringing part of Donna's personality in essence into who she is. And you just had a sip of your cup of tea there. So, uh, and so I don't know if you've noticed, but if you have a look at a part of Donna's branding, there's a part, but quite often what we do is work with people to look at what are the parts of their life outside of work that make them unique, that make them a real person and a real human so that I can go, Oh, I get her.

She's kind of like me. And then I suddenly feel like, Oh, great. Okay.

Now I feel understood. I feel like I can that you're not this machine that just talks about meetings that you actually have a life like me. And I go, yeah, I really do have that challenge around meetings.

So quite often there's a part of what I look for. What is the human connection that, that is part of your brand and Donna, do you want to tell us a bit about your teacup chronicles? Tell us a bit about that.

[Speaker 2] (29:35 - 31:24)
So, um, look, I kind of can't really remember how it started. I think I was, uh, so I live in the country and I live in quite a picturesque environment and I wanted a way to share a little bit with my, probably more, more my personal social media network around where I live and the beauty of it. And so I used to make a cup of tea and I'd take it onto my veranda and I'd sit it on the veranda ledge and I would just take a photo with whatever the background setting is.

And so I have a lot of overseas people. So if we ever had kangaroos, for example, which we get frequently on our front area, I'd take photos with kangaroos and I started to share it. And then it was, um, I don't know whether she's a listener or whether she might've been a guest, but it was the gorgeous Renee Jerusalem.

So we saw one of my pictures and said, I think I might've done three or four. And she said, I love your teacup chronicles. And from that moment it took off.

And so I would then do a post and do the hashtag teacup chronicles. And so then it started to be just cups of tea from wherever I was in the world. Cause I was doing a fair bit of travel for a few years there.

Um, and I was, you know, I don't mean to kind of make this like, Oh my God, I'm so amazing. But there was a time when I managed to get onto the Queen Mary too and do a crossing from London to New York. And I took a teacup chronicle every day of the Atlantic Ocean.

And so I got a bit of a following around that and it's become, you know, back to your stuff, um, Jane, it's been the consistency of me doing that nearly every day, teacup chronicle up from wherever I am. And, and I've started now doing a little bit of commentary around that. And it's now grown to be, um, a physical thing where I host high teas and I have people come to me and we have a physical cup of tea together as opposed to the, um, or the remote or whatever.

Yes. So it's really, it's become a thing.

[Speaker 1] (31:25 - 32:42)
Yeah. And it's, it's so good. Cause you know, we're doing a little bit of work around one of the things that Michael Porter always says is you've got to have something to invite people to.

And so as part of that business growth and lead generation into your businesses, well, what can I invite people to? And whilst I can, yeah, maybe I can download a blog or I could listen to a podcast or I could buy Donna's book, but it's the experience of being around you that is different. And so whilst it could be, yeah, it could be, you know, you could do a dinner, you could do a lunch, you could do these things.

But when you start to look at the essence of a brand like yours and a teacup chronicle, we're not just, we're not going to go on a dinner with Donna. That doesn't make sense because she does teacup chronicles. So now suddenly we have an element that creates a third dimension into your brand.

That is, I get to go and have a cup of tea with, with Donna. And so now I feel like I'm part of an experience of Donna. I get to have not just learn stuff, but it's, you know, I love that Maya Angelou quote.

That's not just what people said. It's not what people did at that, but it's how you make them feel. And so that's what this sort of starts to create, doesn't it?

So you've got these coming up soon. Is that right? Your high tea?

Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (32:43 - 32:55)
We did one in Melbourne earlier this year and it was great. We've got another one coming up in Melbourne on the 6th of December and then one in Sydney on the 16th of November. So that's in like week after next.

[Speaker 1] (32:56 - 32:56)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (32:57 - 33:48)
And you know, and it's lovely. It's exactly that. And it's not just, it's not, it's this weird mix of, it's not networking.

It's not me doing a seminar. It's just I'm, I'm kind of describing it like it's just a conversation. And so we've got a theme and we just sit around over a cup of tea and some really yummy cakes and just chat about the themes.

The first one we did of course was meetings because it coincided with the launch of the book. So we just talk about meetings, experience of meetings, et cetera. And the next one I'm doing is I've got the guests, my guest is Marie Burgess, who's about to launch a book called Connecting Us.

And it's again, right in the same kind of market that I'm in, a handbook for helping managers lead effective teams. And it's, and it's not, it's not, let's not change the culture. It's like, I'm a manager, I'm struggling with teams.

What can you give me? And so fits right in and she's the perfect person. So we'll just have a conversation about teams.

[Speaker 1] (33:48 - 34:16)
Yeah. It's a simple. That's fantastic.

And you know, it's so on brand and for you and it makes perfect sense for me to come and hang out with you and have a cup of tea and then start to hear what others experiences are, like how they're implementing some of these things in their organisations. So those attending, I'm guessing that they get to build their networks as well as have that experience of you as well as go.

[Speaker 2] (34:16 - 34:17)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (34:18 - 34:19)
I hadn't thought about doing it that way.

[Speaker 2] (34:20 - 34:31)
People like you, Jane, that might be running their own practice. And there will be a consultant and people who come from my network of internal clients, if you will, clients. Yeah.

So it's a, it's a, it's a real mix.
[Speaker 1] (34:32 - 35:08)
That's fantastic. I think that's in the world of social media and, you know, just constantly doing, whether it's just webcasts, I think people sometimes have forgotten that we've kind of gone too far over into digital. And now it's pulling back to say, well, have you got an interaction with people?

That's not just online and downloading a video or watching YouTube that I can physically go and meet this person. I can go and get a sense of if I trust this person, could I work with them before I commit to even doing anything? It's kind of like creating a tribe.

[Speaker 2] (35:08 - 36:04)
Yeah. Totally. And having been around for 20 years now, I was thinking recently about, cause I've been around long enough doing this before social media was the channel.

When I started social media was literally was, was Facebook and Twitter just commenting on stuff. It wasn't no one thought about this as a way of positioning was a very few people did put it that way. And so, you know, how did I, how did I market my business in the first 10 years without social media?

And of course it was exactly that. It was phone calls meetings and experiencing me and it still is. And so whilst I think it's important to have positioning and branding and on all of that on social media, it will always come back to, as far as I'm concerned, having a meeting, having a physical experience, having a cuppa and a catch up and connecting physically.

I'm still very much in that, you know, of that ilk, if you will call me old fashioned.

[Speaker 1] (36:04 - 36:38)
No for B2B, especially I say for B2C, then yes social media is kind of a bigger driver was Facebook ads and all that sort of stuff. If you're going down that path of business to consumer, but in the B2B market, you got to get on the bloody phone. You got to go and get belly to belly, actually meet people face to face, have a conversation because there's nothing that you can, you can roll out content till the cows come home.

But until you are able to actually connect at a human level, nothing will change and you won't be able to help them grow.

[Speaker 2] (36:39 - 37:04)
The TCAP Chronicle thing has been a great entree. And not that I do many, in fact, I would not do any cold calls really, but to be able, because it's become connected to my brand, to me to ring someone and say, Hey, it's been ages. It's time for a cuppa and a catch up.

They go, Oh yay. Can you take a TCAP Chronicle with you? And so it makes it even easy to go back to ring my clients because they, they they're seeing that.

[Speaker 1] (37:05 - 38:13)
Yes. They're used to it. That's just part of what you do.

So we're up for a TCAP Chronicle. I love it. So, so for those listening, it would be cool to have a bit of a think about perhaps, I wonder what your TCAP Chronicle is.

I wonder what your version of that is that gets you to come to life. And it's another way of expressing yourself that people can, can connect with you. So, so Donna keen to find out if people want to know more about where they can find out more about you, if they want to buy your book, they want to start learning how to run.

Even, you know, even in your own practice, what I love about it is, you know, even you don't have to be within an organization for those people who are listening, these 25 minute meetings are just so powerful. Even in your own practice, even if you, even for yourself, like just setting yourself on 25 minute meetings, right. I'm going to do 25 minutes on a blog.

I'm going to do 25 minutes on that meeting with whether it's my VA, whatever it is, is that Donna, tell us where should we go to find more information? And if we want to follow you and learn more about what you do.

[Speaker 2] (38:15 - 39:16)
Sure. So the obvious one is Donna McGeorge.com, which has my whole story on there and events that are coming up and stuff that I do. We have a dedicated website, the 25 minute meeting.com website. So 25 minute meeting.com is the number. And from there you can buy the book. We've also got a resources section, free resources section where you can get templates and things like that that are mentioned in the book to help you run your meetings.

There's obviously I'm on, I'm on across all social media, but on Facebook we have a specialized 25 minute meeting group. So if you want to also page, so if you go, you know, search in Facebook for the 25 minute meeting, you'll find it there. And of course it's available in all good bookshops.

Although right at this point in time, I'm sold out and they're just doing a reprint at the moment, which is pretty awesome. So I've got some stock. So if people want to order directly from me through the Donna McGeorge website, you can, if you do it from anywhere else, they're waiting on a little bit of stock at the moment.

[Speaker 1] (39:18 - 39:41)
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and allowing us to go a bit in behind the scenes of, of your practice and how it works. So we're super excited for you about your book and, and the journey that it's going to mean for you in 2019.

And of course, for all the great clients that you work with, I know the power of this work. So, so congratulations on all your success and thanks again for joining us.

[Speaker 2] (39:42 - 39:44)
Absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[Speaker 1] (39:44 - 41:20)
Thank you. Thank you.